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Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

NMU8405 said:
Sadly we cant ship the "Hostile and Abusive" state away without taking the rest of the globe with them.
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I was talking about the icy cold universe known as North Dakota, but that would work too.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

CNN is reporting a "large" aftershock, and there is now a Tsunami Advisory for the coast of Japan.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Bigger than the 7.1 earlier?!? Cripes. This country just can't buy a break.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

geezer said:
Fears of a meltdown. Any nuclear physicists on here?
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Not a physicist, but I did train for 2 years at the US Navy's Nuclear Power school in Orlando, and Nuclear Prototype in Balston Spa, NY. Then spent 4 years as a Nuclear Operator on a balistic missile submarine. 7 patrols on the USS Daniel Boone, SSBN 629 out of Charleston SC. I didn't get to pull control rods, but I did the PM's on the reactor coolant pumps. Never had a single one fail.

The second video on that link says Sec Clinton stated the US Air Force was or could deliver coolant. WHAT?? That sounds like something Biden would say. They use water as coolant. Everybody uses water, except the Russians, and Chernobyl made them wish they used water. I heard in one news report that they have started pumping seawater over the reactor, thats a bad sign.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

They're pumping seawater into at least 2 of the reactors and the rods in #3 were uncovered for some period of time from what I've heard
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Wol4ime, while most reactors use water, some of those use deuterated (heavy) water. So regular water may not be ideal. Also, while they may have access to water, they may not be able to pump it. They may also be delivering equipment.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

dxmnkd316 said:
Wol4ime, while most reactors use water, some of those use deuterated (heavy) water. So regular water may not be ideal. Also, while they may have access to water, they may not be able to pump it. They may also be delivering equipment.
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The video used the term "coolant" as if the Japanese were short of Prestone or something like that. Why would the USAF have heavy water just lying around? Then again, I was in the Navy, not the AF. (sorry to nitpick here, but water serves 2 purposes in the Rx. It moderates the fusion process and it acts as a coolant. Heavy water is a better moderator, that's why it's ideal when the Rx is critical. But if you want to shut down the Rx, the last thing you want is MORE neutron attenuation. So heavy water would actually be worse in this scenario than regular H2O. Of course, the fact that they are using seawater now shows that they are way beyond ideal)

I think what happened is the earthquake knocked out the turbine generators, steamstops were closed, and they scrammed the Rx. At this point, no problem. Then the Tsunami hit and it flooded the diesel generator backups. That caused them to lose power to the coolant pumps. They could air lift diesel generators easy enough, but what if the control rooms were flooded by the sea water. That is much more problematic if all the electronics are shorted out.

Another report stated the explosion was a hydrogen explosion. Nobody stores hydrogen inside a building, at least not since the Hindenberg. That means it probably came from the vessel itself. Better they vented it outside the vessel than let it go off inside the vessel, but still not good.
 
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Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Wol4ine said:
Not a physicist, but I did train for 2 years at the US Navy's Nuclear Power school in Orlando, and Nuclear Prototype in Balston Spa, NY. Then spent 4 years as a Nuclear Operator on a balistic missile submarine. 7 patrols on the USS Daniel Boone, SSBN 629 out of Charleston SC. I didn't get to pull control rods, but I did the PM's on the reactor coolant pumps. Never had a single one fail.

The second video on that link says Sec Clinton stated the US Air Force was or could deliver coolant. WHAT?? That sounds like something Biden would say. They use water as coolant. Everybody uses water, except the Russians, and Chernobyl made them wish they used water. I heard in one news report that they have started pumping seawater over the reactor, thats a bad sign.
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One other thing- since this is a water cooled reactor, study Three Miles Island, and it's failure, followed by the LOFT test that was done in at the INEL. (Loss of Fluid Test, Idaho National Engineering Lab, now called INL.... I spent a summer working right next to LOFT, which was way done by then AND the TMI reactor is still in archive in the Idaho Lab)

Basically, the "China Syndrome" would not happen- if all coolant was lost, the reactor not go super critcal, but once all fluid was lost, then the passage of ractants slows down, and the fission reaction stops. What I'm reading into the reaction isn't just a way to keep any chance of release to a minimum, but also to reduce the damage/cost due to the other damage.

Is there a risk of radioactive release- I think so, but is there a chance of "meltdown"- I don't think so.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Well, I highly doubt they would be storing hydrogen. It most likely came from a reaction of some sort.

I'd also be extremely surprised if the control room and generators were not protected from flooding. Especially the control room. The Japanese are smart, they know when something is that close to water you have to protect against that kind of thing.
 
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Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

The Daiichi reactor is a boiling-water reactor. Inside the containment, the reactor sends its steam out to a turbine. The turbine converts the steam's energy into rotary motion, which turns a generator and makes electricity.

But as the water goes through the reactor, some water molecules break up into hydrogen and oxygen. A system in the turbine hall usually scrubs out those gases. Hydrogen is also used in the turbine hall to cool the electric generator. Hydrogen from both sources has sometimes escaped and exploded, Mr. Lochbaum said, but in this case, there is an additional source of hydrogen: interaction of steam with the metal of the fuel rods. Operators may have vented that hydrogen into the turbine hall.

Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/j...uclear-reactors-91395?trendingnowandshared&cp
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The Rx's I'm familiar with are Pressurized-water Reactors. Sounds like Hydrogen production was a normal by product of operation there.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Apparently there's been a partial meltdown but it's completely contained.

Also, it didn't really click at first, but an MIT prof on CNN is saying that by pumping seawater into the reactor, they are essentially destroying it. It make sense now that I think about it. That's a ten-figure loss right there. :eek:
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

dxmnkd316 said:
That's a ten-figure loss right there. :eek:
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Honestly, those were already done... and I guess some of the older ones (in the 30-40 year range) were scheduled to be taken off-line... hell, supposedly the reactors themselves came out well... but yes, as noted everywhere, the cooling management systems failed... I believe as a result of the tsunami water.

Part of me wonders... why not have them on the other side of Japan? I have to imagine the tsunami danger would be less frequent... the only one i'm not sure of is earthquake potential... but i know if all the plates are on the eastern side... or if that doesn't even matter that much.

Personally, I fear that this will retard any movement towards nuclear in the US. I am aware that the modern designs are a lot different than these reactors in Japan... and there are a bunch of places which are really not subject to the geological concerns exhibited in Japan. I suppose you just keep arguing the facts... sigh.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Cripes. My buddy in Japan is saying the nuke plant is on fire and there are now tsunamis again...
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Patman said:
Personally, I fear that this will retard any movement towards nuclear in the US. I am aware that the modern designs are a lot different than these reactors in Japan... and there are a bunch of places which are really not subject to the geological concerns exhibited in Japan. I suppose you just keep arguing the facts... sigh.
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Facts don't matter to NIMBY.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

Apparently a volcano is erupting on one of the southern Japanese islands.

One of the nuke plants just had another H explosion that set off the seismographs. It looked impressive on Fox and may have been felt 30 miles (km??) away.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 Magnitude Quake, Tsunami Warnings In Effect

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

Read this article. Fantastic explanation that should remove a lot of the fear mongering and misinformation out there about the nuclear aspect of this disaster.

Granted, this is a dynamic situation and conditions can easily change. But it sounds like the plants can suffer a complete meltdown and be "fine". They were designed to handle a complete meltdown with complete cooling failure. The controlled releases of steam and other gases (including hydrogen/oxygen) are a good thing. The explosions didn't appear to damage the "last resort" containment vessel.
 
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