What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

SJHovey said:
I'm an old hand, having gone through this with two older girls. Strangely, no problems thus far. Although my wife claims when this one is gone we have to get rid of the 16 x 20 framed photo of me with my gun, and the bear I killed in Ontario, that hangs in the front entry. I don't know. I kinda like the picture myself. :D
Click to expand...

I believe the Bruce Willis quote is, "kill the first boyfriend and word will get around."
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Slap Shot said:
Escobar gave up on political influence very early on. His targets had far, far more to do with revenge and militaristic might than political influence. That he was allowed to "imprison" himself was the result of bribes, not violence.
Click to expand...

Bribes are just a shortcut version of lobbying.
 
Escobar never stopped using violence and it was never for political gains. Of course we're probably splitting hairs over something that's probably not very important to any one of us. :)
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

The feds finally brought out their long-threatened suit against Arizona today. No surprise, but still dissapointing that our federal government would sue someone who tries to fill the gaping holes in the federal government's woeful efforts to enforce its own laws.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Haven't read the whole lawsuit; don't plan to. But here are some quotes courtesy of cnn.com:

Fed Lawsuit said:
The immigration framework set forth by Congress and administered by federal agencies reflects a careful and considered balance of national law enforcement, foreign relations, and humanitarian concerns -- concerns that belong to the nation as a whole, not a single state.

The Constitution and federal law do not permit the development of a patchwork of state and local immigration policies throughout the country. Although a state may adopt regulations that have an indirect or incidental effect on aliens, a state may not establish its own immigration policy or enforce state laws in a manner that interferes with federal immigration law.

[the Arizona law] disrupts federal enforcement priorities and resources that focus on aliens who pose a threat to national security or public safety. ... If allowed to go into effect, [its] mandatory enforcement scheme will conflict with and undermine the federal government's careful balance of immigration enforcement priorities and objectives.
Click to expand...

(emphasis mine)

In other words, the feds want to keep on enforcing immigration laws "when they durn well feel like it" and are offended that someone is bothering to enforce the laws exactly as written. If the feds don't like the laws, they should work to change them rather than interfering with their enforcement.

The Justice Dept should be brought up on charges of obstruction of justice. Oh, the irony...
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

LynahFan said:
Haven't read the whole lawsuit; don't plan to. But here are some quotes courtesy of cnn.com:



(emphasis mine)

In other words, the feds want to keep on enforcing immigration laws "when they durn well feel like it" and are offended that someone is bothering to enforce the laws exactly as written. If the feds don't like the laws, they should work to change them rather than interfering with their enforcement.
Click to expand...

You mean like drug laws and assisted suicide?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I'm a fan of creating a competitive option to the federal govt in the form of state govt.

I'm in Texas and it shows in spades. The state seems to have a lot of blanket small govt proponents and it shows. Compare cities to Mpls and St Paul and its no comparison. The only thing I see Tex offering is a warm winter. I'll gladly spend whatever additional state tax is necessary to deliver the difference in quality of the cities up north.

Having said that, I'm in favor of the suit. Really the only place where federal involvement is nonnegotiable in my opinion...is a single coherent national strategy on international and crossborder issues. That is to say the patchwork concern...the foundation of the suit...is real and valid.

But in the end, I don't care about the law for itself...except I don't want dollar one of my tax dollars going to Arizona to support the massive police budget increases and new avalanche of lawsuits facing the state. If Arizona is fighting so hard for this bill...they better be prepared to bear its responsibility.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

LynahFan said:
In other words, the feds want to keep on enforcing immigration laws "when they durn well feel like it" and are offended that someone is bothering to enforce the laws exactly as written.
Click to expand...

Also, the federal government would like those damm kids to get off their lawn.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
I'm a fan of creating a competitive option to the federal govt in the form of state govt.

I'm in Texas and it shows in spades. The state seems to have a lot of blanket small govt proponents and it shows. Compare cities to Mpls and St Paul and its no comparison. The only thing I see Tex offering is a warm winter. I'll gladly spend whatever additional state tax is necessary to deliver the difference in quality of the cities up north.

Having said that, I'm in favor of the suit. Really the only place where federal involvement is nonnegotiable in my opinion...is a single coherent national strategy on international and crossborder issues. That is to say the patchwork concern...the foundation of the suit...is real and valid.

But in the end, I don't care about the law for itself...except I don't want dollar one of my tax dollars going to Arizona to support the massive police budget increases and new avalanche of lawsuits facing the state. If Arizona is fighting so hard for this bill...they better be prepared to bear its responsibility.
Click to expand...
Arizona has been bearing the responsibility for broken federal immigration policy for a long time, so I don't think anybody here is flinching at Obama and his supporters suing us or not doing much to help the border situation. We really have nothing to lose pushing the issue. Worst scenario, the law gets thrown out and we're back with just the feds doing their ineffective job and foisting costs on the state, as they have for awhile.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
But in the end, I don't care about the law for itself...except I don't want dollar one of my tax dollars going to Arizona to support the massive police budget increases and new avalanche of lawsuits facing the state. If Arizona is fighting so hard for this bill...they better be prepared to bear its responsibility.
Click to expand...

Western states that don't begin with "C" only exist because of your tax dollars. Without government spending, everything west of Amarillo would look like Fallujah.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Bob Gray said:
Arizona has been bearing the responsibility for broken federal immigration policy for a long time, so I don't think anybody here is flinching at Obama and his supporters suing us or not doing much to help the border situation. We really have nothing to lose pushing the issue. Worst scenario, the law gets thrown out and we're back with just the feds doing their ineffective job and foisting costs on the state, as they have for awhile.
Click to expand...

It sounds like a federal policy of small government. True fiscal conservatives should have been happy pre-sb2070 and should be fighting this expansion of government. I surely hope we don't see this sucker in Minnesota. Having said that, I personally feel there are important roles left for the federal government here.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

5mn_Major said:
It sounds like a federal policy of small government. True fiscal conservatives should have been happy pre-sb2070 and should be fighting this expansion of government. I surely hope we don't see this sucker in Minnesota. Having said that, I personally feel there are important roles left for the federal government here.
Click to expand...
You can't possibly believe this drivel, can you? Border enforcement costs are negligible in the big budget picture, and far more important than the pork Obama has been slinging left and right. This may be the single most nonsensical post I've ever seen you make. We want the federal government to be fiscally conservative in this one area, while going pork-wild everywhere else, when this is more important and fundamental than a bunch of other stuff that the feds spend money on. It's laughable to say that properly securing the border in any way equates with expansion of federal government. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

While not giving a big hoot about this law, I did see something to the effect that citizens can sue if they don't think the law is being enforced enough. That seems a little odd and an opening for crackpots to just go crazy with litigation.

What I wonder more about though is the logistics of all this. Will Arizona house these detainees on their own (I know about Maricopa Sheriff's tent cities but it sounds like we're talking about a lot more people here). Will they try to deport people themselves, as in sending them back across the border? Is the plan to do this and then ask the feds for reimbursements?

Don't mind the feds filing suit because the legality of this law needs to be put to rest once and for all. However, once that's decided (in favor of AZ in this example) I'm fully in favor of democracy taking its course. If some citizens of the state feel this is unfair, they need to organize and show up at the polls much like what happened in California in the past decade or so.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

My understanding is that the state authorities would turn over the illegals to the feds. But I recall reading some rumblings from the feds that they may choose to not be cooperative, which would put Arizona in a very awkward position. I guess it depends on just how much Obama wants to squeeze Arizona.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Interesting perspectives from Cochise County sheriff Larry Dever. For those who don't know, Cochise County is right on the border in SE Arizona.

http://www.bensonnews-sun.com/articles/2010/07/07/news/news04.txt

One of the interesting things he notes is that there are reports that border agents on the ground want to fully do their job, but they are being held back by upper management from doing so. And that the feds are statistics oriented instead of doing the best job.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top