Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Honest question, not meant at all snarky: why is this The Issue? (I'll admit I'm not in AZ and it must be a much, much bigger deal there for advocates of either side.)

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "The Issue". It's certainly one of a number of important issues out there that are being dealt with and discussed to various extents. This one has surfaced right now as one of the most prominent, but a few months back health care was getting all the headlines. If you're going a different direction, help me out.

One aspect that has pushed it higher on the agenda here in Arizona, other than that the border areas are just becoming more and more dangerous, is that with the huge state budget problems, the costs the feds don't reimburse to the states for illegal immigration efforts are an even bigger concern than when budgets were in better shape.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "The Issue". It's certainly one of a number of important issues out there that are being dealt with and discussed to various extents. This one has surfaced right now as one of the most prominent, but a few months back health care was getting all the headlines. If you're going a different direction, help me out.

I meant your number one issue.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

oh, you can't be serious. it takes a serious delusion or gross partisanship to actually believe the health care that was passed is anywhere near funded. it's the same kind of fantasy land thinking that has led us to an ever-worsening fiscal problem. my side's stuff is funded, but those bad guys over there don't fund anything. it's all smoke and mirrors and rubbish.

No, you can't be serious. The funding of the Health Care Bill was vetted and debated. The funding of the two wars and the prescription drug benefit had neither.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

No, you can't be serious. The funding of the Health Care Bill was vetted and debated. The funding of the two wars and the prescription drug benefit had neither.

You don't know how they come up with budget estimates on this stuff, do you? If you did, you'd realize how off-base you are. Basically, when the CBO comes up with an estimate, it is required to base its estimate off the assumptions that are given it by the folks in Congress who are asking for the estimate. So, guess what, the estimates come in looking good, because the inputs were wildly optimistic. A classic case of garbage in, garbage out. But, it worked, as people like you bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

You don't know how they come up with budget estimates on this stuff, do you? If you did, you'd realize how off-base you are. Basically, when the CBO comes up with an estimate, it is required to base its estimate off the assumptions that are given it by the folks in Congress who are asking for the estimate. So, guess what, the estimates come in looking good, because the inputs were wildly optimistic. A classic case of garbage in, garbage out. But, it worked, as people like you bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

You accuse me of partisanship?

Again. One bill was budgeted, the others were not. You can argue the process all day long as flawed, and I'll agree with you, but you can't argue that it wasn't budgeted and that's what you're doing.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I meant your number one issue.

I wouldn't say it's my number one issue, but it's one of the more important issues out there. I'm fairly vocal, because I see a lot of folks who don't live anywhere near the borders who feel free to pass judgment on those of us who do and the steps we try to take to keep our state relatively safe. It's truly amazing how clueless a lot of the commentary is that gets thrown in here about the border problems. But, if I was still living in Duluth, I probably wouldn't care near as much and to some extent would just ignore the issue until it impacted me more directly. We all do that to various extents. But living in Arizona, it's hard to ignore the issue. Any time my wife and I consider a trip to the southern part of the state, I have to go through an extra process of considering what level of risk there may be, and there are places in southern Arizona we simply can't, or won't go to anymore.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

You accuse me of partisanship?

Again. One bill was budgeted, the others were not. You can argue the process all day long as flawed, and I'll agree with you, but you can't argue that it wasn't budgeted and that's what you're doing.

The shoe fits, so stop banging it on the table and put it on.

Again, if you understood how the budget numbers were concocted for the health care reform, you'd understand that it was little or no better than if the budget wasn't considered at all. You are creating a false dichotomy, when the situations are much closer together than you will admit.

Tell me, do you believe the budget numbers that were put out for the cost of the health care reform are accurate? Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

The shoe fits, so stop banging it on the table and put it on.

Again, if you understood how the budget numbers were concocted for the health care reform, you'd understand that it was little or no better than if the budget wasn't considered at all. You are creating a false dichotomy, when the situations are much closer together than you will admit.

Tell me, do you believe the budget numbers that were put out for the cost of the health care reform are accurate? Put your money where your mouth is.

It doesn't matter what I believe. The budget was debated and voted on. In the other three cases it was not.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Tell me, do you believe the budget numbers that were put out for the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are accurate? Put your money where your mouth is.

FYP.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

It doesn't matter what I believe. The budget was debated and voted on. In the other three cases it was not.

It's not that hard to understand.

Good heavens! The budget was fiction. The fact that it was debated and voted on has no bearing on whether it accurately reflects what costs will be.

We'll see if five years from now it's anywhere near what they estimated. Most commentary I've seen says no. I believe no. You blindly believe whatever Congress tells you from their artificially manipulated results from the CBO. We'll see who is right.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Good heavens! The budget was fiction. The fact that it was debated and voted on has no bearing on whether it accurately reflects what costs will be.

We'll see if five years from now it's anywhere near what they estimated. Most commentary I've seen says no. I believe no. You blindly believe whatever Congress tells you from their artificially manipulated results from the CBO. We'll see who is right.

Don't testify as to what I believe. I never said what I believe.

One was debated and budgeted. The other three were not.

This isn't that hard.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Don't testify as to what I believe. I never said what I believe.

One was debated and budgeted. The other three were not.

This isn't that hard.

By your statements, you de facto buy into the health care budget, giving it much more credence over how other matters are (debatably) budgeted. Don't pretend you aren't.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

By your statements, you de facto buy into the health care budget, giving it much more credence over how other matters are (debatably) budgeted. Don't pretend you aren't.

Bob, come on.

I buy into the fact that it was budgeted and debated. I made a very fine point earlier and you started this by saying I can't be serious. I'm dead serious. I saw the budget numbers and I saw the debate.

I saw none of that in the other three cases.

None of that has anything to do with what I do or do not believe.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Bob, come on.

I buy into the fact that it was budgeted and debated. I made a very fine point earlier and you started this by saying I can't be serious. I'm dead serious. I saw the budget numbers and I saw the debate.

I saw none of that in the other three cases.

None of that has anything to do with what I do or do not believe.

Maybe it'd help if at some point you'd say something you believe?

I did, and will again, concede to your very narrow procedural point that the health care budget was debated. But that's all it is, a narrow procedural point. Now let's dial back into the real world of what our country faces.

Once again, tell me, do you believe the budget numbers put out there for, say, the next ten years are accurate or not for health care? It's a simple question. Hopefully one of these times you'll answer it.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Bob, come on.

I buy into the fact that it was budgeted and debated. I made a very fine point earlier and you started this by saying I can't be serious. I'm dead serious. I saw the budget numbers and I saw the debate.

I saw none of that in the other three cases.

Does that make the healthcare bill alright then? If not, you really don't have much of a point.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I meant your number one issue.

I agree. The way Bob posts about illegal immigration, it's almost like this thread was dedicated to illegal immigration or something.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I agree. The way Bob posts about illegal immigration, it's almost like this thread was dedicated to illegal immigration or something.

Illegal immigration is certainly my number one issue in this thread!

 

[walrus]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

.

Once again, tell me, do you believe the budget numbers put out there for, say, the next ten years are accurate or not for health care? It's a simple question. Hopefully one of these times you'll answer it.

Hasn't their already been some back pedaling on preexisting conditions? In that there isn't enough money to handle them?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Maybe it'd help if at some point you'd say something you believe?

I did, and will again, concede to your very narrow procedural point that the health care budget was debated. But that's all it is, a narrow procedural point. Now let's dial back into the real world of what our country faces.

Once again, tell me, do you believe the budget numbers put out there for, say, the next ten years are accurate or not for health care? It's a simple question. Hopefully one of these times you'll answer it.

I believe the country is headed to bankruptcy. I try to not post everything in my normal pessimistic ire cause that turns people off.

Does that make the healthcare bill alright then? If not, you really don't have much of a point.

I don't know what the right thing for Health Care is to be honest. I voted (or didn't vote for them but someone else) for my representatives and they voted their conscience.

I do know that countries we compete against have nationalized health care and that health care is a major burden on our employers. Personally I've always hated health care as a work benefit and always preferred it be run like any other insurance.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Personally I've always hated health care as a work benefit and always preferred it be run like any other insurance.

AGREED

Now back to showing how 70% of the country is racist.