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Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

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Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Yes, my solution is through the courts. It's imperfect, but it also protects us from the insanely arbitrary and potentially dangerous solution of appointing an unelected person to dole out money to "the deserving".

You and scooby want immediate gratification at the expense of the balance of power between the three branches of our government. You are essentially saying you want the executive branch to carry out a mission that was meant for the judiciary. By extension, if a state disaster occurs, we'll have governors compelling companies to establish funds and then they'll appoint unelected people to pay out the money there, too.

Don't either of you see the possible abuse here? Politicians appointing unelected and unaccountable people to handle vast sums of money demanded from companies that screw up to compensate alleged victims... hmmm, no, no possibility of something going wrong there. :rolleyes:
No, I'd prefer it through the courts but our courts, and government are so corrupt as it is I'll take my money now thank you.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

No, I'd prefer it through the courts but our courts, and government are so corrupt as it is I'll take my money now thank you.

Working through the courts and reforming the court system, and the government, to purge it of corporate influence, is the big prize here. Rosa Parks didn't have a big guy threaten the bus driver.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Yes, my solution is through the courts. It's imperfect, but it also protects us from the insanely arbitrary and potentially dangerous solution of appointing an unelected person to dole out money to "the deserving".

You and scooby want immediate gratification at the expense of the balance of power between the three branches of our government. You are essentially saying you want the executive branch to carry out a mission that was meant for the judiciary. By extension, if a state disaster occurs, we'll have governors compelling companies to establish funds and then they'll appoint unelected people to pay out the money there, too.

Don't either of you see the possible abuse here? Politicians appointing unelected and unaccountable people to handle vast sums of money demanded from companies that screw up to compensate alleged victims... hmmm, no, no possibility of something going wrong there. :rolleyes:

BP could have said no. Hayward could have told Obama to get stuffed. No one MADE them promise to hand over $20 billion, they did it anyway.

I bet the people up in Alaska whose livelihoods were destroyed and they got nothing wish George Bush (the elder) had asked Exxon for $20 billion.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

BP could have said no. Hayward could have told Obama to get stuffed. No one MADE them promise to hand over $20 billion, they did it anyway.

I bet the people up in Alaska whose livelihoods were destroyed and they got nothing wish George Bush (the elder) had asked Exxon for $20 billion.

Remember, kids. Extortion is a policy of the United States of America.... and if you're really careful we won't do it to you. The Chicago way has gone national.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Working through the courts and reforming the court system, and the government, to purge it of corporate influence, is the big prize here. Rosa Parks didn't have a big guy threaten the bus driver.

So, what we're saying is "by any means necessary, ignoring the consequences, because its a public good"... yes?

The influence of corporations is a failure of people. Its basically stoning the prostitute... the prostitute wouldn't have business if you didn't keep buying. The corporations wouldn't get away with **** IF YOU JUST DIDN'T LET THEM. Nope, we have to save ourselves from ourselves in some idiotic ad hoc manner... because I'll tell you this... there will be no set of laws you can craft to reign in corporations that you won't be able to write to reign in people.... and even in reigning in corporations you'll reign in legitimate behavior as well.

This is not a defense of evil... its not a defense of screw ups. BP did some really stupid stuff trying to chase dollars. But the "lets destroy them all" attitude is frankly stupid... and in general the things you mention just can't work because you can't construct that reality.

At this point, I see "corporations" and I substitute the words "the things I don't like". If you want to argue about BP then argue about BP... otherwise the problem is in the veniality of your elected representatives. They are the men in the prostitute parable... a moral society doesn't 1) lead to these immoral situations on the business side, 2) doesn't lead to these immoral situations on the government side. In the end it is us who have decided to fail because we won't stand up for stuff in the micro case. Instead we're going to just "abolish" (fat chance) these things instead of acting in the proper manner in the first place.

People keep looking for a "third way". The "third way" doesn't exist as it has no other philosophy than "please, sir, stop doing those bad things because I feel that they may be bad".
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Remember, kids. Extortion is a policy of the United States of America.... and if you're really careful we won't do it to you. The Chicago way has gone national.

If I ask you for a million bucks and you give it to me, it's not my fault.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

So, what we're saying is "by any means necessary, ignoring the consequences, because its a public good"... yes?

The influence of corporations is a failure of people. Its basically stoning the prostitute... the prostitute wouldn't have business if you didn't keep buying. The corporations wouldn't get away with **** IF YOU JUST DIDN'T LET THEM. Nope, we have to save ourselves from ourselves in some idiotic ad hoc manner... because I'll tell you this... there will be no set of laws you can craft to reign in corporations that you won't be able to write to reign in people.... and even in reigning in corporations you'll reign in legitimate behavior as well.

This is not a defense of evil... its not a defense of screw ups. BP did some really stupid stuff trying to chase dollars. But the "lets destroy them all" attitude is frankly stupid... and in general the things you mention just can't work because you can't construct that reality.

At this point, I see "corporations" and I substitute the words "the things I don't like". If you want to argue about BP then argue about BP... otherwise the problem is in the veniality of your elected representatives. They are the men in the prostitute parable... a moral society doesn't 1) lead to these immoral situations on the business side, 2) doesn't lead to these immoral situations on the government side. In the end it is us who have decided to fail because we won't stand up for stuff in the micro case. Instead we're going to just "abolish" (fat chance) these things instead of acting in the proper manner in the first place.

People keep looking for a "third way". The "third way" doesn't exist as it has no other philosophy than "please, sir, stop doing those bad things because I feel that they may be bad".

It wasn't "We the people" who decided corporations had the rights of citizens - that was the Supreme Court. It then became a Civil Rights violation to hold corporations responsible for anything. Congress can pass all the laws they want, but unless we either remove the 14th Amendment or remove corporate personhood, SCOTUS will strike it down as unconstitutional.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Remember, kids. Extortion is a policy of the United States of America.... and if you're really careful we won't do it to you. The Chicago way has gone national.

I think youre giving Chicago way too much credit here. There have always been relationships between the US govt and private parties...the only question is the extent to which it exists at the local levels as is also exemplified by many places in the south.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

It seems to me if you are angry about W and the Patriot act circumventing the courts to wiretap and whatever, you'd be angry about Obama setting up another bureaucracy to get around the courts to pass out money.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

It seems to me if you are angry about W and the Patriot act circumventing the courts to wiretap and whatever, you'd be angry about Obama setting up another bureaucracy to get around the courts to pass out money.

I didn't ask to have my civil liberties usurped.

Obama asked for $20 billion, Hayward agreed. If you want to be upset at someone, be upset with Hayward.

By the way, will you give me a million dollars?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Sounds like a very interesting conversation took place between Obama and Jon Kyl, Senator from Arizona. Kyl confronted Obama on securing the border and Kyl reports that Obama responded: "The problem is, he said, `If we secure the border, then you won't have any reason to support comprehensive immigration reform.'"

This would explain a lot.

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1307105

Of course the White House is denying it.

Bob, Walrus, Old Pio, Patman, I'm publicly calling you guys out.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OWZlZDA3ODhmNDkyYWY3NGRkODNjOTJkMjM5MzVhN2M

Turns out it was Kyl who was lying. Who would have thunk it. :rolleyes: Once again you guys have believed a knuckledragging conservative politician, and once again he's left you high and dry. Thought you guys might have learned your lesson with Sanford, Craig, Foley, etc etc but I guess not. Either way, step up to the plate on this one. :D
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Bob, Walrus, Old Pio, Patman, I'm publicly calling you guys out.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OWZlZDA3ODhmNDkyYWY3NGRkODNjOTJkMjM5MzVhN2M

Turns out it was Kyl who was lying. Who would have thunk it. :rolleyes: Once again you guys have believed a knuckledragging conservative politician, and once again he's left you high and dry. Thought you guys might have learned your lesson with Sanford, Craig, Foley, etc etc but I guess not. Either way, step up to the plate on this one. :D
Why would Kyl lie about this? I can see where Obama would, for the reasons Kyl said. Would Kyl do it just to take a ounce of flesh? Their certainly is a chance of that
Huh, go figure, something was reported wrong or a politician flat out lied, I'm shocked
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OWZlZDA3ODhmNDkyYWY3NGRkODNjOTJkMjM5MzVhN2M

Turns out it was Kyl who was lying. Who would have thunk it. :rolleyes: Once again you guys have believed a knuckledragging conservative politician, and once again he's left you high and dry. Thought you guys might have learned your lesson with Sanford, Craig, Foley, etc etc but I guess not. Either way, step up to the plate on this one. :D

Kyl was lying? you got that from reading this? put the Kool-Aid down, son.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Kyl was lying? you got that from reading this? put the Kool-Aid down, son.

Not lying. His comments were "taken out of context." :rolleyes:
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Kyl was lying? you got that from reading this? put the Kool-Aid down, son.

Take your head out of your arse. What part of him walking back his statement about the President are you having trouble comprehending?:rolleyes:

I always love it when cons revert back to George W Bush type head in the sand posturing when they get caught BS'ing about something.

In the meantime, here's many of yours' hero Sarah Palin, praising an article comparing Obama to Hitler.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/39030.html

One has to wonder how many USCHO conservatives share that sentiment...
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Kyl was lying? you got that from reading this? put the Kool-Aid down, son.

When I said this might not be true (which it doesn't appear to have been)...Walrus asked why would Kyl lie. Thats where that came from.

I challenged Bob on his press release saying it might not be true, thought that he shouldn't post it 'as though' it was true, and felt it was weak logic to just assume it was so because Kyl said it.

I was thrown under the bus by a handful of conservative posters for that. Big shock it was not true...IMO we should wait for a bit more evidence before we start to assume the worst even of someone we don't like.

Oh and as that episode comes to a close...time to find another bus for Rover or I.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

When I said this might not be true (which it doesn't appear to have been)...Walrus asked why would Kyl lie. Thats where that came from.

I challenged Bob on his press release saying it might not be true, thought that he shouldn't post it 'as though' it was true, and felt it was weak logic to just assume it was so because Kyl said it.

I was thrown under the bus by a handful of conservative posters for that. Big shock it was not true...IMO we should wait for a bit more evidence before we start to assume the worst even of someone we don't like.

Oh and as that episode comes to a close...time to find another bus for Rover or I.

We try to stop you from regularly throwing yourself under the bus, but you seem to have an affinity for Greyhounds! :p
 
Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

BP could have said no. Hayward could have told Obama to get stuffed. No one MADE them promise to hand over $20 billion, they did it anyway.
...except for the high probability of facing the full weight of the federal government if the company refused Obama's demand. It's not like some random stranger approached the company and asked it for money - it was the leader of the free world doing it, and oh by the way, his party has control of Congress at least until the fall elections. So if the company decided to tell him to * off, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the administration would make it their mission to get that money one way or another.
I bet the people up in Alaska whose livelihoods were destroyed and they got nothing wish George Bush (the elder) had asked Exxon for $20 billion.
The end does not justify the means.
 
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