Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

...except for the high probability of facing the full weight of the federal government if the company refused Obama's demand. It's not like some random stranger approached the company and asked it for money - it was the leader of the free world doing it, and oh by the way, his party has control of Congress at least until the fall elections. So if the company decided to tell him to * off, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the administration would make it their mission to get that money one way or another.

The end does not justify the means.

Pandora's box was opened a long time ago. These companies are not allowed to fail and now they can't let all the gulf businesses fail. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference. Perhaps if insurance had been offered to the businesses in the gulf to help offset losses incurred from the stupidity of a greedy moron.

Or, perhaps it's just the American Way that the only folks allowed to fail are the ones who run their entire life based on claiming bankruptcy.

Don't like it move to a different country cause both parties have shown no backbone to change it.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Sounds like a very interesting conversation took place between Obama and Jon Kyl, Senator from Arizona. Kyl confronted Obama on securing the border and Kyl reports that Obama responded: "The problem is, he said, `If we secure the border, then you won't have any reason to support comprehensive immigration reform.'"

This would explain a lot.

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1307105

Of course the White House is denying it.

I'd certainly believe Kyl over Obama (or McCain though he's not part of this particular discussion). It certainly helps explain the administration's failure to do much of anything on the border and even in certain cases quietly cutting funding.

Just in case others missed the posts...never gets old.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Just in case others missed the posts...never gets old.

You're still quite enamored with my opinions, aren't you?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

...except for the high probability of facing the full weight of the federal government if the company refused Obama's demand. It's not like some random stranger approached the company and asked it for money - it was the leader of the free world doing it, and oh by the way, his party has control of Congress at least until the fall elections. So if the company decided to tell him to * off, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the administration would make it their mission to get that money one way or another.

The end does not justify the means.

Congress could have passed a law requiring BP to pay up, but it still would have ended up in front of a pro-business SCOTUS...if that had happened BP would have won 5-4. They would have taken a publicity black-eye, but that hasn't really hurt Exxon too much.

BP chose not to fight it. Again, if you don't like it, blame them.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

You're still quite enamored with my opinions, aren't you?

Maybe at times too much so.

I'm going to apologize. Even when people say things they mean to...that doesn't mean they should. A better world starts at home.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Maybe at times too much so.

I'm going to apologize. Even when people say things they mean to...that doesn't mean they should. A better world starts at home.

Yellow card for diving.

 

[ColbyWMHB]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I was thrown under the bus by a handful of conservative posters for that. Big shock it was not true...IMO we should wait for a bit more evidence before we start to assume the worst even of someone we don't like.

What a bunch of crap.

You were "thrown under the bus" by many posters (not all of them conservative) because you insisted that Bob HAD TO BE WRONG!. You weren't interested in "waiting for more evidence"; your take was Bob was wrong and Kyl was wrong, even though Bob said SEVERAL TIMES that it was his gut feeling and opinion and nothing more.

Get over yourself. Please. Your continuous "nailing yourself to the cross" act got old the first time you did it and it's even more tiresome now that we've seen it numerous times. Are you this whiny in real life, or it just the role you play online?

 

[Jon]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

We try to stop you from regularly throwing yourself under the bus, but you seem to have an affinity for Greyhounds!

Yellow card for diving.

I'm not even sure if 5Mn is right or not, but this is very well played by the two of you.

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

What a bunch of crap.

You were "thrown under the bus" by many posters (not all of them conservative) because you insisted that Bob HAD TO BE WRONG!. You weren't interested in "waiting for more evidence"; your take was Bob was wrong and Kyl was wrong, even though Bob said SEVERAL TIMES that it was his gut feeling and opinion and nothing more.

Get over yourself. Please. Your continuous "nailing yourself to the cross" act got old the first time you did it and it's even more tiresome now that we've seen it numerous times. Are you this whiny in real life, or it just the role you play online?

Given that Bob was clearly wrong, and has yet to man up and admit as such, do you plan on calling him out too in the same manner, or is that too much to ask?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Given that Bob was clearly wrong, and has yet to man up and admit as such, do you plan on calling him out too in the same manner, or is that too much to ask?

You're not much for nuance are you. Man up to saying I'd believe Kyl over Obama? That view of mine doesn't change, even if Kyl has said his comments were taken out of context. I live in Arizona and have been represented by Kyl for many years. I've found him one of the most solid, straight-forward members of Congress. I don't have a lot of faith in Obama, while I'm sure you do, and you would have little knowledge of Kyl, other than tha the's one of those Republicans, who you generally don't like. So, is it that hard to grasp that we'd have different levels of belief in the two folks. Get off the stupid mindset that I was proclaiming ultimate truth, rather than saying who I'd be believe first and foremost in the situation. I'd address the specifics of what Kyl actually said, but I know you too well on this board to believe that'd be a useful effort.

Really, a part of me thought Obama was too smart to say something that bold and straight-forward and honest, even if it may reflect how he is actually operating regarding border security.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I mean, Kyl's such a good guy, he even sent a letter helping Peggy West, a Milwaukee County Supervisor, understand that Arizona does in fact border Mexico. West, in arguing for an Arizona boycott said quote:
"If this was Texas, which is a state that is directly on the border with Mexico, and they were calling for a measure like this saying that they had a major issue with undocumented people flooding their borders, I would have to look twice at this. But this is a state that is a ways removed from the border."

Kyl even sent her a map and highlighted Arizona to help her improve her geographic skills. What a guy!

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/97164154.html

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

That woman should have been a very solid candidate for Drunk Cheesehead of the Day.

Here's the actual letter (PDF).

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

You're not much for nuance are you. Man up to saying I'd believe Kyl over Obama? That view of mine doesn't change, even if Kyl has said his comments were taken out of context. I live in Arizona and have been represented by Kyl for many years. I've found him one of the most solid, straight-forward members of Congress. I don't have a lot of faith in Obama, while I'm sure you do, and you would have little knowledge of Kyl, other than tha the's one of those Republicans, who you generally don't like. So, is it that hard to grasp that we'd have different levels of belief in the two folks. Get off the stupid mindset that I was proclaiming ultimate truth, rather than saying who I'd be believe first and foremost in the situation. I'd address the specifics of what Kyl actually said, but I know you too well on this board to believe that'd be a useful effort.

Really, a part of me thought Obama was too smart to say something that bold and straight-forward and honest, even if it may reflect how he is actually operating regarding border security.

What I enjoy out of you is the sactimonious "I'd make the effort to address it but its not worth it" martyr complex, right after you engaged in the same juvenile political games that you want to appear to be above. Don't know when exactly you turned into phil_dupree, but you have and any protestations to the contrary aren't fooling anyone.

However, on topic, Kyl is a reflexive conservative idiot, a guy who once made the brilliant statement "Republicans just need to talk more about impeachment" to turn the public tide against Clinton, when the public was supporting him by like 75%-25% in that fight. Nothing like having a Senator with his ear to the ground. The guy's a career backbencher and I'm not sure if he's had an imprint on anything, but please enlighten me if he has.

Regarding immigration, frankly I don't care much about this issue. I don't see why the Bush II plan can't be implemented, and in fact I think it probably will when the 2012 elections come around and the GOP tries to appeal to Hispanics. I will say however that it seems Arizona has a lot bigger fish to fry, such as an economy built solely on a now extinct speculative housing market, and state known as the capital of crystal meth production and usage (which isn't coming in from Mexico). Methinks pols and voters over there ought to concentrate on the bigger issues...

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

What I enjoy out of you is the sactimonious "I'd make the effort to address it but its not worth it" martyr complex, right after you engaged in the same juvenile political games that you want to appear to be above. Don't know when exactly you turned into phil_dupree, but you have and any protestations to the contrary aren't fooling anyone.

However, on topic, Kyl is a reflexive conservative idiot, a guy who once made the brilliant statement "Republicans just need to talk more about impeachment" to turn the public tide against Clinton, when the public was supporting him by like 75%-25% in that fight. Nothing like having a Senator with his ear to the ground. The guy's a career backbencher and I'm not sure if he's had an imprint on anything, but please enlighten me if he has.

Regarding immigration, frankly I don't care much about this issue. I don't see why the Bush II plan can't be implemented, and in fact I think it probably will when the 2012 elections come around and the GOP tries to appeal to Hispanics. I will say however that it seems Arizona has a lot bigger fish to fry, such as an economy built solely on a now extinct speculative housing market, and state known as the capital of crystal meth production and usage (which isn't coming in from Mexico). Methinks pols and voters over there ought to concentrate on the bigger issues...

Wow, nice, well-rounded ignorance of Arizona issues and politics. Let me ask, do you think that Arizona borders Mexico?

And thanks for affirming why I didn't go into a detailed discussion.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

That woman should have been a very solid candidate for Drunk Cheesehead of the Day.

Here's the actual letter (PDF).

She's also a good candidate for "fire the idiot out of a cannon", but there isn't a gun large enough.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

They can't even fire her like a torpedo. She ain't little.

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Wow, nice, well-rounded ignorance of Arizona issues and politics. Let me ask, do you think that Arizona borders Mexico?

And thanks for affirming why I didn't go into a detailed discussion.

I've noticed your pattern of avoiding the truth when convenient and turtling back up into the "nobody wants to have a serious discussion" mantra. You can almost set your watch by it.

Didn't the Gadsen purchase finalize the border between AZ and Mexico (and NM and Mexico I believe). IIRC, its also the last time the continental United States expanded its borders.

Beyond the history lesson though, I'll say again, it sure seems like there's more pressing problems than illegals in that state of yours. Tell me, aside from homes built on spec, of which you have about a gazillion of oversupply, what else drives the Arizona economy? Perhaps state officials should prioritize that issue first, lest the voters figure out they're getting jobbed by their politicians focus on hot button instead of bread and butter issues.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

I've noticed your pattern of avoiding the truth when convenient and turtling back up into the "nobody wants to have a serious discussion" mantra. You can almost set your watch by it.

Didn't the Gadsen purchase finalize the border between AZ and Mexico (and NM and Mexico I believe). IIRC, its also the last time the continental United States expanded its borders.

Beyond the history lesson though, I'll say again, it sure seems like there's more pressing problems than illegals in that state of yours. Tell me, aside from homes built on spec, of which you have about a gazillion of oversupply, what else drives the Arizona economy? Perhaps state officials should prioritize that issue first, lest the voters figure out they're getting jobbed by their politicians focus on hot button instead of bread and butter issues.

I never said nobody wants a serious discussion, just that you typically don't so I won't bother with explaining the nuances of the Kyl-Obama situation to you. But I know you favor broad generalizations.

Technically, you are wrong about the Gadsden Purchase, as at that time there was no Arizona territory (as it was a part of New Mexico Territory then), so there was no border between Arizona and Mexico to be finalized at the time. And of course one could argue that for a short time part of Arizona wasn't part of the U.S. at all, as the Confederate Territory of Arizona was declared during the Civil War before the Union drove the Confederates out at the battle of Picacho Pass.

You cite the obvious in citing Arizona's housing situation. But to pretend that the illegal immigration isn't a legitimate major issue here, in terms of public safety and crime as well as fiscally, you're just missing the boat, and an obvious boat to boot. I just saw a tally recently from the governor's office that Arizona has spent $750 million in unreimbursed costs related to housing illegal immigrants that the feds have refused to reimburse. Hardly chicken feed.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

Peggy West keeps digging herself deeper and deeper:
"She later explained that she meant to say Texas had a longer border. "Had Texas come out with the legislation, having the largest border, I think that I would be more receptive to the fact that there was a problem. But having it be Arizona, having it be the second largest boarder and knowing there are troops on the border in Arizona, it didn't seem to me that this legislation was particularly necessary at this moment in time," West told Newsradio 620

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=145731&catid=186

So she doesn't think Arizona needs help simply because Texas has a longer border with Mexico than Arizona does? Holy Toledo!

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration Pt. III: It's Illegal to be Illegal? Really?

You cite the obvious in citing Arizona's housing situation. But to pretend that the illegal immigration isn't a legitimate major issue here, in terms of public safety and crime as well as fiscally, you're just missing the boat, and an obvious boat to boot. I just saw a tally recently from the governor's office that Arizona has spent $750 million in unreimbursed costs related to housing illegal immigrants that the feds have refused to reimburse. Hardly chicken feed.

I didn't say it isn't an issue. However, I will stand by my statement that its being used more as a political issue than anything else. The solution to the problem, a bipartisan solution at that, is already out there. Why is this still being argued about?

Its sorta like banning gays from adopting or teaching creationalism in schools. Politicians who push this don't give a rat's arse about this usually. Simply put they use it to win easy votes while avoiding tougher problems.

For the record, IMHO the rule of law needs to be respected. While I sympathize with the plight of people coming here for a better life, the bottom line is illegal is illegal and people can't cut in line. In that regard, AZ's law doesn't bother me. Not sure the particulars of why the state is housing illegal immigrants, but I'd be curious what's behind that (as in, are they housing the parents of US born children or something to that effect).