Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

[Red Cloud]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Easily explained: there are two main driving forces behind illegal immigration. Drugs and cheap labor. Bad economy hits, there's less jobs out there, which removes some of the incentive for the cheap labor to come here.

No, silly, it's clearly Obama flying in on his magic unicorn and causing the decrease himself.

 

[moe24]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Okay, which one of you conservatives was in Seattle recently?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na...an_in_seattle_store/srvc=home&position=recent

Typical liberalism. Don't bother actually making a point, just say something ridiculous to vilify the other side.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Typical liberalism. Don't bother actually making a point, just say something ridiculous to vilify the other side.

Yeah, never seen that kind of sanctimony from the other side.

Posts that lead with "Typical..." are just jabs. (Typically.)

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Typical liberalism. Don't bother actually making a point, just say something ridiculous to vilify the other side.

Hmmm...we DO have some conservative posters in New York....

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na...cused_of_firing_shots_near_upstate_ny_mosque/

What's that saying? If it happens once, you dismiss it. If it happens twice, you dismiss it. If it happens a third time...

Seriously though, this is a direct consequence of all the conservative scapegoating of all things Muslim. Nice of raging liberal Orrin Hatch to sign up for the religious tolerance bandwagon about two weeks too late, but his is a rare position amongt cons. When people trying to build a mosque are portrayed as really wanting to build a monument to 9-11 terrorists by the mind readers out there, you can expect attacks like this to continue frankly. Really, if people are stupid enough to believe some of the right wing idiocy written out here, why is it a stretch to believe that some of these people would act on it?

 

[moe24]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Hmmm...we DO have some conservative posters in New York....

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na...cused_of_firing_shots_near_upstate_ny_mosque/

What's that saying? If it happens once, you dismiss it. If it happens twice, you dismiss it. If it happens a third time...

Seriously though, this is a direct consequence of all the conservative scapegoating of all things Muslim. Nice of raging liberal Orrin Hatch to sign up for the religious tolerance bandwagon about two weeks too late, but his is a rare position amongt cons. When people trying to build a mosque are portrayed as really wanting to build a monument to 9-11 terrorists by the mind readers out there, you can expect attacks like this to continue frankly. Really, if people are stupid enough to believe some of the right wing idiocy written out here, why is it a stretch to believe that some of these people would act on it?

Thanks for a second example in support of my point. All you did there was vilify conservatives by completely mischaracterizing them.

Interestingly I frequent another sports site, where the majority of political posters are conservatives and there you see none of the name calling, insults, and vilifying of the other side that you see daily on here.

 

[Rimbaud]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Thanks for a second example in support of my point. All you did there was vilify conservatives by completely mischaracterizing them.

Interestingly I frequent another sports site, where the majority of political posters are conservatives and there you see none of the name calling, insults, and vilifying of the other side that you see daily on here.

I know I've never seen a conservative poster do those things here. Oh wait, no, that's a flat out lie. Both sides treat each other like red headed step children meant for whipping. Let's not crucify ourselves while riding on our high horse.

 

[TimP]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Typical liberalism. Don't bother actually making a point, just say something ridiculous to vilify the other side.

Who else would have done it? One side recognizes the contributions made by Muslims to society, the other stabs them, shoots them, and wants to purge them from the country.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Who else would have done it? One side recognizes the contributions made by Muslims to society, the other stabs them, shoots them, and wants to purge them from the country.

Balanced, thoughtful, reasonable, on point, logical, accurate, yup, you've convinced me.

 

[Patman]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

One side recognizes the contributions made by Muslims to society

OK... name them...

LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY:

Cannot be stolen or previously inherited from a conquered or converted culture.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Typical liberalism. Don't bother actually making a point, just say something ridiculous to vilify the other side.

I don't subscribe to a lot of liberal theories, but what you just said is just flat out silly

Who else would have done it? One side recognizes the contributions made by Muslims to society, the other stabs them, shoots them, and wants to purge them from the country.

And then you go and say something as stupid as that...

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Thanks for a second example in support of my point. All you did there was vilify conservatives by completely mischaracterizing them.

What conservatives never want to own up to is their relentless need to find someone to blame for all of society's problems has real and negative consequences. Go through the years: blacks, feminists, then gays, now Muslims, who's next? Then when some kid gets beaten to death out in Wyoming its always "oh well, we don't condone that". The problem is you've created the climate where the nuts who committed the crime think there's some sort of acceptance of that behavior. We're now seeing the same thing in these attacks. Frankly its similar to how dictators around the world blame America for their failings at home.

Want an example of this behavior? Look no further than Patman:

OK... name them...

LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY:

Cannot be stolen or previously inherited from a conquered or converted culture.

Basically he's saying no Muslim anywhere has ever contributed anything to society, and he defies anybody to site an example. Obviously if someone did, it would just be dismissed as stolen or conquered from another culture. This is basically classifying them as a lower level of humans that all of the other cultures in the world apparently. That's right - not just current Muslims, but those who lived during the last couple of Millenia. I would take the time to mention Anwar Sadat and King Hussein, but why bother? You can't reason with an idiot.

Now, the next question will be "don't you do this to conservatives"? I do this to the subset of conservatism which holds views like those mentioned above. Sadly, this view is the loudest, and dictates policy, on the right. Give me back the Doles, Warners, William Buckley's, etc and have them be in charge and I wouldn't be saying that. However, those people are long gone and anybody in their image is keeping really quiet right now.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

OK... name them...

LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY:

Cannot be stolen or previously inherited from a conquered or converted culture.

This is the old nutbar-chic argument that Arab philosophers were only "stealing" from the Greeks.

By that same standard, all Christian philosophers from Augustine to Aquinas were only "stealing" from Plotinus.

Anybody who doesn't recognize the original contributions to science and philosophy of Alhazen, Averroes, Avicenna and hundreds of other Islamic philosophers is either ignorant of history, blinded by ideology, or both.

Beyond the stupid, there is however a smart argument: the Islamic Golden Age ended when religious fundamentalists refused to give credence to scientific and philosophical ideas because they conflicted with a sacred text. That led to stagnation and institutional fanaticism. Sound familiar?

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

This is the old nutbar-chic argument that Arab philosophers were only "stealing" from the Greeks.

By that same standard, all Christian philosophers from Augustine to Aquinas were only "stealing" from Plotinus.

Anybody who doesn't recognize the original contributions to science and philosophy of Alhazen, Averroes, Avicenna and hundreds of other Islamic philosophers is either ignorant of history, blinded by ideology, or both.

Beyond the stupid, there is however a smart argument: the Islamic Golden Age ended when religious fundamentalists refused to give credence to scientific and philosophical ideas because they conflicted with a sacred text. That led to stagnation and institutional fanaticism. Sound familiar?

Well done Kep.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Good column by a longtime southern Arizona resident. The comparison of how the Obama administration is measuring success on the border like we measured success in the Vietnam War is quite compelling.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2010/09/14/is-our-border-really-secure/

 

[Rover]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

And now its time for Deep Thoughts, by Rover:

"If someone screams every day about illegals in his state, but there's nobody there to listen, does he really make a sound?"

 

[Slap Shot]

And now its time for Deep Thoughts, by Rover:

"If someone screams every day about illegals in his state, but there's nobody there to listen, does he really make a sound?"

Rover, even if one doesn't think this doesn't reach your top list for problems nationally I have to imagine it's very, very real for those along the border and I don't think it makes sense to denigrate those that are directly impacted, even if tongue in cheek.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Rover, even if one doesn't think this doesn't reach your top list for problems nationally I have to imagine it's very, very real for those along the border and I don't think it makes sense to denigrate those that are directly impacted, even if tongue in cheek.

This is Rover's standard modus operandi. No surprise.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

And in other news, Janet "I've forgotten everything I knew when Arizona governor" Napolitano has now declared the border secure so we can do comprehensive immigration reform.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/98433

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/Napolitano_Its_Congress_turn_to_act_on_immigration_102829304.html?c=y&page=1#storytop

Maybe then she can talk to Obama about taking down those signs that were recently posted all over southern Arizona federal land, warning people it's unsafe to go on such federal lands.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

It's interesting to watch this debate and listen to French TV reporting on the Roma deportations. There are parallels and differences (the most significant of which is that France is an EU member country and there is a whole other set of labor and citizenship laws they may be in violation of), but the passions and arguments on both side are markedly similar. There are important stakes on both sides. Hopefully we can resolve our problem without such a Draconian solution.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

It's interesting to watch this debate and listen to French TV reporting on the Roma deportations. There are parallels and differences (the most significant of which is that France is an EU member country and there is a whole other set of labor and citizenship laws they may be in violation of), but the passions and arguments on both side are markedly similar. There are important stakes on both sides. Hopefully we can resolve our problem without such a Draconian solution.

Thankfully for France, the Roma aren't shooting at French law enforcement authorities regularly, taking over parts of France, murdering all sorts of innocent people just across France's borders, destroying environmentally sensitive areas along the border, etc. Nor do they number 11 million in France, or whatever the latest illegal tally in the U.S. is.

And of course the Roma issue in Europe has a long and complex history that does not parallel the issue of illegals coming across the U.S.-Mexico border. I do think France could have handled the situation a lot better. Really, if anything, it highlights just how modest the U.S.' actions have been regarding a much more serious problem here.