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If the olympics were still amateur...

Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Slap Shot said:
"Quaint notions about amateurs" as they pertained to the games of 30+ years ago is far less applicable in the absence of the Soviet bloc, although that's not to say alternative shenanigans would not rebound.
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Exactly. And asuming the IOC wanted to, how would they go about putting the toothpaste back in the tube? The world has moved on, nobody cares anymore.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

BU Fan 84 said:
I don't get the bolded part of your post. Before '98, this is exactly what happened - any college players took whatever amount of time required off from college and from their college team. The women to this day go even further. They take the year off from college and from their college team and play together for the year. As for whether or not NHL players should play in the Olympics in the future shouldn't be the question, in my opinion. I think a truly national TEAM should be used, just like they do with the women in the Olympics. Play together for the whole year. I don't care whether it's NHL players, professional players or amateurs. It will probably have to be "amateurs" since the NHL would never go for it, but I think for the integrity of sport and competition, you gotta go with actual teams.
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I am fully aware of how US teams were developed prior to 1998. I was merely ruminating on the subject of the full barnstorm-for-a-year model vs a WJC hold-a-couple of camps and pick a team model. Personally, I am not a fan of a second-rate tournment. Olympic Soccer with the U-23s is a shadow of full World Cup quality, and if the hockey tourney became a world junior showcase, it would not measure up to the quality we just witnessed in Vancouver, and is not a real measure of "the best" in the world as the rest of the Olympic winter sports are. Today, the Olympics are all about the best - and that's why people watch.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Puck Swami said:
I am fully aware of how US teams were developed prior to 1998. I was merely ruminating on the subject of the full barnstorm-for-a-year model vs a WJC hold-a-couple of camps and pick a team model. Personally, I am not a fan of a second-rate tournment. Olympic Soccer with the U-23s is a shadow of full World Cup quality, and if the hockey tourney became a world junior showcase, it would not measure up to the quality we just witnessed in Vancouver, and is not a real measure of "the best" in the world as the rest of the Olympic winter sports are. Today, the Olympics are all about the best - and that's why people watch.
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So what else is new, you want pros to play in college, too. Why not just watch the NHL, and then the all-star game?
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

There are no such thing as elite Olympic amateur athletes left in any sport. The top US athletes receive up to $100,000 from the USOC depending on their sport & medal chances to train, hire coaches and not have to get a job. Companies like UPS hire aspiring Olympic athletes and give them flexible jobs so that they can train.

Great Britain spends even more than the US from the proceeds of Lottery tickets. Everyone knows how much the Chinese are spending pursuing medals.

Almost every wealthy country copied the Soviet/East German model and formed elite sports academies (including hockey's USNDP).

Olympic medals are bought and paid for by wealthy nations vainly pursuing nationalistic ambitions. But hey, its better than going to war or buying weapons.
 
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Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Puck Swami said:
Were the Winter Olympics to use this U-20 model (or U-23?) for hockey, I think the US college coaches would be furious, as players would miss the heart of the schedule and miss a ton of class time,
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Meh.

That's par for the course on the women's side of college hockey. In fact, the top US and Canadian players miss the entire year as both countries centralize their squads.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Happy said:
So what else is new, you want pros to play in college, too. Why not just watch the NHL, and then the all-star game?
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The attraction of the Olympics, in my mind, is that it is one of the only places that truly measures world champions head to head - the best athletes in the world in that sport, save for soccer and boxing, which do not send their best athletes to the Games. The Olympics is really many simultaneous world championships where the best players in sports compete for their countries.

The Stanely Cup is a club championship, as is the Super Bowl or the World Series. They may call themselves "world champions" when they win, but they aren't, as those teams represent a city, rather than a country.

Hockey has a world championship each year, but it is a second-rate tourney, as players who are involved in the Stanley Cup playoffs are not included, and many other big star players decline the invitation to play. It's also held primarily in Europe, which reduces its visibility here in the USA.

Hockey's World Cup is a great tourney of best-on-best by country, but it's sporadically held (diminishing its value) and is also held in September, when players often not yet in top form, and it competes with a lot of other sports in full season for visibility. If NHLer don't go to the Olympics, a revamped World Cup is a must.

If the Olympics were only for young athletes or amateur athletes, it reduces the value of an Olympic Medal as the signification of the best, because the best players in that sport aren't there. Olympic Soccer and Boxing medals have been really reduced in meaning without their best athletes competing. Hockey would go backwards in creating a second-tier tourney, much like Olympic Baseball was (and that's why they dropped baseball, because the best weren't coming).

The only reason that people are so fond of the "Miracle on Ice" was that a bunch of young US college players beat "the best" team of Soviet 'amatuers-in-name-only' who had demolished the NHL all stars the year before. If we go to a U-23 or U20 or minor leaguers in the Olympics, the whole tourney is diminished in value because the best players will be in the NHL, including the Russians. Olympic Hockey as a tourney of B and C teams means very little.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Happy said:
So what else is new, you want pros to play in college, too. Why not just watch the NHL, and then the all-star game?
Click to expand...

For me the Olymipics with NHLs is compelling because they care. What all-star game do you see hitting like the US team dished out. The passion of winning for your country transforms it from exhibition to a real game. I think the days of all-star games are in the past, name one where the players play hard.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

dggoddard said:
Olympic medals are bought and paid for by wealthy nations vainly pursuing nationalistic ambitions. But hey, its better than going to war or buying weapons.
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It's dick-waving, but it doesn't kill people. And it was good hockey. Enjoy the sports; leave the patriotism to the bumpkins.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Puck Swami said:
The attraction of the Olympics, in my mind, is that it is one of the only places that truly measures world champions head to head - the best athletes in the world in that sport, save for soccer and boxing, which do not send their best athletes to the Games. The Olympics is really many simultaneous world championships where the best players in sports compete for their countries.

The Stanely Cup is a club championship, as is the Super Bowl or the World Series. They may call themselves "world champions" when they win, but they aren't, as those teams represent a city, rather than a country.

Hockey has a world championship each year, but it is a second-rate tourney, as players who are involved in the Stanley Cup playoffs are not included, and many other big star players decline the invitation to play. It's also held primarily in Europe, which reduces its visibility here in the USA.

Hockey's World Cup is a great tourney of best-on-best by country, but it's sporadically held (diminishing its value) and is also held in September, when players often not yet in top form, and it competes with a lot of other sports in full season for visibility. If NHLer don't go to the Olympics, a revamped World Cup is a must.

If the Olympics were only for young athletes or amateur athletes, it reduces the value of an Olympic Medal as the signification of the best, because the best players in that sport aren't there. Olympic Soccer and Boxing medals have been really reduced in meaning without their best athletes competing. Hockey would go backwards in creating a second-tier tourney, much like Olympic Baseball was (and that's why they dropped baseball, because the best weren't coming).

The only reason that people are so fond of the "Miracle on Ice" was that a bunch of young US college players beat "the best" team of Soviet 'amatuers-in-name-only' who had demolished the NHL all stars the year before. If we go to a U-23 or U20 or minor leaguers in the Olympics, the whole tourney is diminished in value because the best players will be in the NHL, including the Russians. Olympic Hockey as a tourney of B and C teams means very little.
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so, why do you even bother to watch any college hockey, just watch the Avs and forget the WCHA ever existed.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Happy said:
so, why do you even bother to watch any college hockey, just watch the Avs and forget the WCHA ever existed.
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I love college hockey very much. It's entertaining, fun hockey, and connects me to my school and community. But at the Olympics, I just want to see the best possible players represent my country.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Puck Swami said:
I love college hockey very much. It's entertaining, fun hockey, and connects me to my school and community. But at the Olympics, I just want to see the best possible players represent my country.
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I can't argue with that. But, it would not bother me at all to go back to amateur, and have the Olympics be the best amateurs players represent my country, and not have many of the players being teammates all from the same league the rest of the year, on a two week break in the NHL season.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

Happy said:
I can't argue with that. But, it would not bother me at all to go back to amateur, and have the Olympics be the best amateurs players represent my country, and not have many of the players being teammates all from the same league the rest of the year, on a two week break in the NHL season.
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Well, you may sort of get your wish, if they keep the N out of Sochi, though I have a real hard time imagining that happens since it will cost somebody a lot of money, and the Olympics has solely been about money ever since this.
 
Re: If the olympics were still amateur...

If the NHL opts out of Sochi, it will still be 80% pros. It will just be our best AHL minor leaguers and perhaps a few top college guys against Euro league pros from the KHL, Swiss Elite League, Swedish Ellite league, etc.

In short, the same kind of second tier Olympic tourney we had in 1988, 1992 and 1994.

Good hockey perhaps, but not a showcase for the world's best.
 
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