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Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Brenthoven said:
Ok, here we go into the random thoughts of my mind:

During the "Mad Men" era, etc, men were harassing women left and right. Might be a leer, or a comment, or a grab-arse. It was acceptable during those days. Nothing was really thought of it (although OBVIOUSLY wrong). Should those men (and to be fair, women who did the same thing) be held accountable for those (since-changed) morals?

It's a tough subject, the social ethics have changed quite a bit in the last 50 years.
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Women didn't "do the same thing" - they played along and tolerated the harassment in order to either keep their jobs, or find the richest husband they could, or advance their careers. And it wasn't just limited to the 50s and 60s, as there are obviously professions today where that crap is still going on - entertainment, politics, big banking/Wall Street, etc. FFS, there are men - usually F pax who've been over-served - who think it's still OK to leer at and openly comment on/rate the attractiveness of flight attendants (or "stewardesses" as many of the older ones still call them :rolleyes:). Or they'll whine that the crew is "too old" or "too male".

I'll agree that some things have to be looked at through the lens of the given time period. For instance, 99% of white people prior to about 1960 were racist to at least some degree. It was wrong, but it was the social norm of the day and the way people were raised. Lincoln and his advisers may have won the war, preserved the Union, and freed the slaves, but they sure as hell weren't going to invite them over for dinner and dancing.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Women didn't "do the same thing" - they played along and tolerated the harassment in order to either keep their jobs, or find the richest husband they could, or advance their careers. And it wasn't just limited to the 50s and 60s, as there are obviously professions today where that crap is still going on - entertainment, politics, big banking/Wall Street, etc. FFS, there are men - usually F pax who've been over-served - who think it's still OK to leer at and openly comment on/rate the attractiveness of flight attendants (or "stewardesses" as many of the older ones still call them :rolleyes:). Or they'll whine that the crew is "too old" or "too male".

I'll agree that some things have to be looked at through the lens of the given time period. For instance, 99% of white people prior to about 1960 were racist to at least some degree. It was wrong, but it was the social norm of the day and the way people were raised. Lincoln and his advisers may have won the war, preserved the Union, and freed the slaves, but they sure as hell weren't going to invite them over for dinner and dancing.
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My girlfriend and I have had this discussion a lot lately. She is about as militant as you can get about Women's Rights and treatment of women. (especially harassment and assault) Surprisingly though she argues hardcore that in issues like what Brent is talking about it is not fair to judge people then by the standards of today. What they didnt wasnt right (it was disgusting most of the time) but it was a different time with different feelings and different norms. We can look back and say it was disgusting but it would be hard to punish someone now for what was the norm then.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Handyman said:
My girlfriend and I have had this discussion a lot lately. She is about as militant as you can get about Women's Rights and treatment of women. (especially harassment and assault) Surprisingly though she argues hardcore that in issues like what Brent is talking about it is not fair to judge people then by the standards of today. What they didnt wasnt right (it was disgusting most of the time) but it was a different time with different feelings and different norms. We can look back and say it was disgusting but it would be hard to punish someone now for what was the norm then.
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The hard balancing act of that is that one has to be very careful of "it was ok then"- as someone may look at someone's acceptance of looking back as being still ok now.

It wasn't acceptable then, and it's not acceptable now. It's just that the laws and standards meant that we could not do anything then.

Lets get away from the false equivalency of time based moral questions and separate that from the time based legal consequences. They are very different. Then, you could get away with bad behavior, now you can't. But it was bad in both time frames.

This is exactly why laws and regulations happen in the first place- people do things that are bad, but can get away with it. So laws/regulations are written to put real consequences on bad behavior.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

alfablue said:
The hard balancing act of that is that one has to be very careful of "it was ok then"- as someone may look at someone's acceptance of looking back as being still ok now.

It wasn't acceptable then, and it's not acceptable now. It's just that the laws and standards meant that we could not do anything then.

Lets get away from the false equivalency of time based moral questions and separate that from the time based legal consequences. They are very different. Then, you could get away with bad behavior, now you can't. But it was bad in both time frames.

This is exactly why laws and regulations happen in the first place- people do things that are bad, but can get away with it. So laws/regulations are written to put real consequences on bad behavior.
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Correct. But, should we punish someone today for something that was considered acceptable back then (and let's not go extreme; just talking the basics here like fondle/arse-grabbing). That is kind of what is happening in some cases (NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MOORE AND HIS PEDOPHILIA, that is a different animal)
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Brenthoven said:
Correct. But, should we punish someone today for something that was considered acceptable back then (and let's not go extreme; just talking the basics here like fondle/arse-grabbing). That is kind of what is happening in some cases (NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MOORE AND HIS PEDOPHILIA, that is a different animal)
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Which specific cases ARE you talking about? I'm not really seeing anyone be punished for crimes 50 years ago, so an example would be helpful.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Brenthoven said:
Correct. But, should we punish someone today for something that was considered acceptable back then (and let's not go extreme; just talking the basics here like fondle/arse-grabbing). That is kind of what is happening in some cases
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What do you mean by punish?

Send them to jail? Or just shun their stuff?

One is punishing on a legal level, which did change over time. The other is "punishing" on a moral repugnant level that hasn't.

If advertisers want to drop people for their unethical behavior that was totally legal 50 years ago- that's not nearly the same as going to jail. If I choose to not watch Hitchcock because of his nature, that's not really being punished, it's me choosing not to watch something because of actions I find poor.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Brenthoven said:
But, should we punish someone today for something that was considered acceptable back then (and let's not go extreme; just talking the basics here like fondle/arse-grabbing).
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There's a difference between the courts, public opinion, and my opinion.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Kepler said:
There's a difference between the courts, public opinion, and my opinion.
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is kep still allowed to flirt and ask girls if they wanna bang? (assuming of course that kep would never consider flirtying or sexing anyone every again, right mrs dr kep?)
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

mookie1995 said:
is kep still allowed to flirt and ask girls if they wanna bang? (assuming of course that kep would never consider flirtying or sexing anyone every again, right mrs dr kep?)
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Everybody flirts. Not everybody should flirt, but everybody flirts.

The line between flirting and harassment... that's pretty bright. I don't think you accidentally cross it unless you're a moron or you don't care.

Also: it's Dr. Mrs. She's the doctor, not I.
 
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Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

President appears to have gotten away with commenting on Al Franken with no real damage.
 
Kepler said:
Everybody flirts. Not everybody should flirt, but everybody flirts.

The line between flirting and harassment... that's pretty bright. I don't think you accidentally cross it unless you're a moron or you don't care.

Also: it's Dr. Mrs. She's the doctor, not I.
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Except what you think is a flirt may be taken as harrassment.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

jerphisch said:
Which specific cases ARE you talking about? I'm not really seeing anyone be punished for crimes 50 years ago, so an example would be helpful.
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I would guess he is speaking hypothetically.
 
Re: Hollywood Sexual Assault Thread: We needed one...

Kepler said:
Everybody flirts. Not everybody should flirt, but everybody flirts.

The line between flirting and harassment... that's pretty bright. I don't think you accidentally cross it unless you're a moron or you don't care.

Also: it's Dr. Mrs. She's the doctor, not I.
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so can you ask for sex off someone, as long as you can't get them fired or the like? a kinda, "hey, wanna f?" as long as them saying no won't pressure them to either lose their job or feel like they may lose their job?

after all, humans are really just upright dogs. so what is a little butt sniffing amongst speciesmates?

don't broads make themselves look pretty to draw attention to themselves? they only want the RIGHT person to offer sex. how would the man know if he is the right one or not if he doesn't ask?
 
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