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Hockey East 2020-2021

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Man you are a Dolt.

Why don't you go pass out leaflets to the half a million student athletes and their families across the country. You could beg them to go hide in their basement until this all passes and share that you care more for them than they could ever care for themselves.

On a side note did you quote Scott Gottlieb? Do you have any clue how much he is profiting from all of this? Man you just eat it up.

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com...scott-gottlieb


What is the most common cause of myocarditis?
Viral infection is the most common cause of myocarditis. When you have one, your body produces cells to fight the virus. These cells release chemicals. If the disease-fighting cells enter your heart, some chemicals they release can inflame your heart muscle.

Does myocarditis go away?
In many cases, myocarditis improves on its own or with treatment, leading to a complete recovery. Myocarditis treatment focuses on the cause and the symptoms.

I am sure you cared so dearly about these type of issues prior to 2020.


Jesus Jeb... you're linking pieces from "The Dossier"?!? Getting a little desperate eh? I'm sure Scott Gottlieb has profited from his appearances. The same way Trump and his family have profited from him being president. Funny, I don't see you criticizing them... Here's what's kind of funny, what Trump is doing is actually illegal. What Gottlieb is doing isn't.

To your points regarding myocarditis. Yes, it often improves on its own and individuals who develop it have often have full recoveries. However, it oftentimes does not. And, for the athletes at the smaller DI and those at the DII and DIII levels, those schools can't afford the post-infection cardiac MRI's and lung scans that the Power 5 conferences are doing on all of their athletes who test positive. Meaning, there's a good chance that a lot of individuals who contract the virus won't have any idea whether they developed those or other issues post-infection. Which, in turn will increase their odds of having a significant cardiac event or, developing a more significant level of lung disease as they age. Why, because numerous people in our society want to be able to watch sports because they think it's WAY to much of a "sacrifice" to go a whole year without doing so....
 
If we're talking about college hockey this has nothing to do with wanting to watch sports. No fans are allowed and TV numbers are miniscule. I do, however, support presidents of schools, administrators, coaches and players being on board with playing and I will never shame them for it. But again, that makes me an evil person.
 
Jeb2020, you would prefer the head chef from Papa John's ? I would rather have someone who actually knows the subject matter. But enough politics, hockey is much more fun to talk about.
 
Last response to this issue.

However, the required testing doesn't eliminate the risk completely. Obviously, since players continue to become infected despite the fact most of these teams have been doing the testing since October. Players become infected because they live in society not because of sports. You haven’t shown any statistics that college athletes are infected at higher rates than the general public. Likely its lower. Further, there is no evidence that athletes in season, i.e practicing/playing- have a higher infection rate than non-athlete college students or the general public. Likely its lower. Your argument that there is “definitive” evidence is lacking. The bigger issue is that people like Chuck and Jeb and others argue that sports should be played from the standpoint that the chance of dying is less than 1%. Which is true for people of the age of these athletes and with their levels of physical fitness. As if dying is the only possible negative outcome to becoming infected. For months now my larger point is that dying IS NOT the only negative outcome. The possibility of developing post-infection myocarditis and lung scarring being two of the more serious possibilities. Again- they can all have equally bad outcomes from going to parties- this argument fails because it’s not sport specific.

What is comical is that whenever I present information that definitively proves these issues are real and occurring, Jeb and Chuck and others refuse to acknowledge it or address it in any of their responses. Actually, Chuck finally did in one of his more recent responses by stating, "are you saying that a small handful of cases of myocarditis among tens of thousands of NCAA athletes is in any way comparable to the situation (some would say "epidemic") of NCAA athletes with concussions/head injuries, which have even more significant/extensive adverse outcomes than those who suffer from myocarditis (regardless of causation)?" I respond with numerous articles from respected sources that show/prove that myocarditis is occurring between 5-10% of those infected which means that just in NCAA athletes alone there could easily be over 14,000 individuals (many being asymptomatic) who develop some sort of significant, post-infection issue. And how do both Jeb and Chuck respond? With their usual ad hominem attacks.

The point is, any activity that definitively increases chances of infections and community spread, which in turn increases hospitalizations and, in turn deaths, yet, is an activity that isn't absolutely necessary for basic daily needs, can be argued is an unnecessary activity. Again- there is no evidence presented that this is “definitive” or different from the general population of college students. Like it or not, those in administrative leadership positions -- elected or appointed -- are going to err on the side of extreme caution. Especially when potential legal liability is still so unclear. Well....unless it's an elected position and the person elected is a Republican. I apologize for throwing politics into my response but, it is simply a fact that the only people in elected leadership positions that choose not to follow the accepted science are Republicans. Except every Democrat mayor and Governor who close businesses and outdoor dining despite the science showing those are not causes of spread but it’s safe to go to Walmart? Please spare me that argument. Couldn’t be a bigger group of hypocrites. You clearly come from a viewpoint of fear. That’s fine. Do what you think you need to do. Stay in your basement with Biden. Wear your mask which clearly work as cases skyrocket despite everyone wearing their's in public. Let those people who have a different viewpoint live their lives as they choose.

Why do you think UAF just pulled out of the rest of this season? It's because the administrators of the other WCHA schools decided they didn't want the added risks of infection by having their teams do the extensive travel to Fairbanks. Thus, UAF really didn't have many other options but to choose not to play.
 
Jesus Jeb... you're linking pieces from "The Dossier"?!? Getting a little desperate eh? I'm sure Scott Gottlieb has profited from his appearances. The same way Trump and his family have profited from him being president. Funny, I don't see you criticizing them... Here's what's kind of funny, what Trump is doing is actually illegal. What Gottlieb is doing isn't.

To your points regarding myocarditis. Yes, it often improves on its own and individuals who develop it have often have full recoveries. However, it oftentimes does not. And, for the athletes at the smaller DI and those at the DII and DIII levels, those schools can't afford the post-infection cardiac MRI's and lung scans that the Power 5 conferences are doing on all of their athletes who test positive. Meaning, there's a good chance that a lot of individuals who contract the virus won't have any idea whether they developed those or other issues post-infection. Which, in turn will increase their odds of having a significant cardiac event or, developing a more significant level of lung disease as they age. Why, because numerous people in our society want to be able to watch sports because they think it's WAY to much of a "sacrifice" to go a whole year without doing so....

Gottlieb is the definition of a Charlatan. How you can't see that is amazing. You gobble it up. I don't care about your politics, interesting how you need to bring it into every post when no one posted anything political to the posts you are responding to. As far as Trump goes, did someone post something you would like me to address, I don't remember bringing anything about him up?

The things going on right now would have been classified as mental illness prior to this charade. Lockdowns, quarantines of healthy people, healthy people being told to pretend they are sick, masks, distancing, etc. That is why decades of data and research about pandemics prior to this year said such measures were not effective and too detrimental to society. And as we can see 9 months into this charade none of the measures are effective at all in what they claim to achieve and the "unintended" consequences are many.

As for the athletes. For the half million of them and their parents that is almost 1.5 million people you would think with all the danger that present, that there would be so many more opting to sit out?
 
Last edited:
U. Florida baskeball player just collapsed on the Court during a game and is in critical condition.

​​​​​“Johnson tested positive for COVID-19 during the summer. Although the cause of Johnson’s ailment was not immediately known, the coronavirus can lead to myocarditis, a viral infection of the heart muscle. At its most severe, myocarditis can lead to sudden cardiac arrest
 
Last response to this issue.


Rightnut...I never claimed that college athletes have been infected at higher rates than those that aren't in that same age group. Or, any age group for that matter. Not sure where you pulled that argument/point out of but, that's not anything I have claimed. Since you seemed to be confused about my perspective, I will restate it.

Again, I derive my employment directly from our game being played so, the last thing I want is for it not to be played. I'm not against college sports from being played. As long as that activity doesn't contribute to local community spread in a significant way. However, whether that's occurring needs to be determined by both the local and state health departments/experts. And, if they recommend pausing those types of activities for a certain length of time, then I support that.

You keep bringing up/comparing athletic activity to college kids going to parties. Nobody who supports a more cautious approach to Covid -- including me -- are saying that high school and college kids aren't exposing themselves to infection by their "normal" societal activities. However, unless we choose to do Italy-type lockdowns where you couldn't leave your home without a piece of paper signifying you had permission to go to the grocery store, or the doctor, or dentist, or hardware store for an emergency home repair, we can't possibly prevent kids, especially college age who aren't living at home, from "going out". Whereas, we -- government/administrative leaders -- do have the ability to 100% control whether sports are played or not. You control what you can and you do your best to influence toward the safest direction when you can't

Now, preventing high school kids or college kids still living at home from going out is a different matter. I get tired of listening to parents of kids in that age group/situation saying "What are we supposed to do? We can't keep them from leaving the house..." Ummm, yes, you actually can. Is it hard to do, especially if they are more social than not? Absolutely. Will it likely cause significant friction and conflict in the house. You bet. But, as I often tell my friends, if my kids aren't telling me they hate me at least once a month as teenagers, I'm likely failing them as a parent.

Next, you say I haven't presented any information that definitively proves that there is infection occurring from on-ice activity. You obviously aren't actually reading what I've provided. OK, here's the link to the Washington Post article that looks at why experts consider hockey less safe than other sports...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/04/hockey-covid-transmission-outbreaks/

From the article...

"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore’s home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players." The hockey-related cases have been especially striking, epidemiologists have said, because clubs followed Centers for Disease Control and Prevention limits on gathering size and had numerous social distancing measures in place."

"One critical way hockey differs from other contact team sports is how players do line changes — substitutions of groups of players — and are expected to sprint for nearly the whole time they are on the ice. Experts say it probably leads to heavier breathing, resulting in more particles being exhaled and inhaled."

When schools shut down in March, there was huge confusion about the extent to which children could get the virus and transmit it to others. Today, cases among those younger than 18 are soaring. The American Academy of Pediatrics reported last week that more than 1.3 million children had tested positive for coronavirus during the pandemic. Nearly 154,000 children tested positive from Nov. 19 to 26 "

Massachusetts Hockey President Bob Joyce said that state officials estimated that those 108 initial hockey cases amounted to 3,000 to 4,000 others potentially exposed. In an October report, the CDC detailed a large outbreak in Florida among amateur adult hockey players on two teams that played each other but had no other contact. Investigators speculated that the indoor space and close contact increased the infection risk. They also pointed out that ice hockey “involves vigorous physical exertion accompanied by deep, heavy respiration, and during the game, players frequently move from the ice surface to the bench while still breathing heavily.”

Surrounded by plexiglass not only to prevent errant pucks but also to keep the airflow stable so the ice can remain cold, there’s little ventilation and humidity by design in ice rinks. The surface of the ice is kept around 20 degrees Fahrenheit; the ambient air temperature, in the 50s. The Department of Homeland Security has shown in lab experiments that the virus may live at those temperatures up to two times longer in the air. At 86 degrees, for example, 99 percent of the airborne virus is estimated to decay in 52 minutes. But at 50 degrees, it would take 109 minutes.

In Vermont, an outbreak at a single ice rink ripped through the center of the state, affecting at least 20 towns in at least four counties, and seeding other outbreaks at several schools. By Oct. 30, when Vermont Gov. Phil Scott (R) detailed the outbreak at a press briefing, 473 contacts had been associated with it.

The previous paragraph is proof as to how sports specific spread leads to legitimate increases in community transmission. What follows is from a different article by ABC News in regards to how hockey is unique compared to other sports. Here's link...
 
Rightnut...I never claimed that college athletes have been infected at higher rates than those that aren't in that same age group. Or, any age group for that matter. Not sure where you pulled that argument/point out of but, that's not anything I have claimed. Since you seemed to be confused about my perspective, I will restate it.

Again, I derive my employment directly from our game being played so, the last thing I want is for it not to be played. I'm not against college sports from being played. As long as that activity doesn't contribute to local community spread in a significant way. However, whether that's occurring needs to be determined by both the local and state health departments/experts. And, if they recommend pausing those types of activities for a certain length of time, then I support that.

You keep bringing up/comparing athletic activity to college kids going to parties. Nobody who supports a more cautious approach to Covid -- including me -- are saying that high school and college kids aren't exposing themselves to infection by their "normal" societal activities. However, unless we choose to do Italy-type lockdowns where you couldn't leave your home without a piece of paper signifying you had permission to go to the grocery store, or the doctor, or dentist, or hardware store for an emergency home repair, we can't possibly prevent kids, especially college age who aren't living at home, from "going out". Whereas, we -- government/administrative leaders -- do have the ability to 100% control whether sports are played or not. You control what you can and you do your best to influence toward the safest direction when you can't

Now, preventing high school kids or college kids still living at home from going out is a different matter. I get tired of listening to parents of kids in that age group/situation saying "What are we supposed to do? We can't keep them from leaving the house..." Ummm, yes, you actually can. Is it hard to do, especially if they are more social than not? Absolutely. Will it likely cause significant friction and conflict in the house. You bet. But, as I often tell my friends, if my kids aren't telling me they hate me at least once a month as teenagers, I'm likely failing them as a parent.

Next, you say I haven't presented any information that definitively proves that there is infection occurring from on-ice activity. You obviously aren't actually reading what I've provided. OK, here's the link to the Washington Post article that looks at why experts consider hockey less safe than other sports...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/04/hockey-covid-transmission-outbreaks/

From the article...

"Massachusetts logged more than 100 youth hockey cases in a few weeks. In Maine, an asymptomatic referee exposed up to 400 people in two days. In Bellemore’s home state of New Hampshire, state officials shut down youth hockey for two weeks to get cases under control and mandated testing for all 20,000 players." The hockey-related cases have been especially striking, epidemiologists have said, because clubs followed Centers for Disease Control and Prevention limits on gathering size and had numerous social distancing measures in place."

"One critical way hockey differs from other contact team sports is how players do line changes — substitutions of groups of players — and are expected to sprint for nearly the whole time they are on the ice. Experts say it probably leads to heavier breathing, resulting in more particles being exhaled and inhaled."

When schools shut down in March, there was huge confusion about the extent to which children could get the virus and transmit it to others. Today, cases among those younger than 18 are soaring. The American Academy of Pediatrics reported last week that more than 1.3 million children had tested positive for coronavirus during the pandemic. Nearly 154,000 children tested positive from Nov. 19 to 26 "

Massachusetts Hockey President Bob Joyce said that state officials estimated that those 108 initial hockey cases amounted to 3,000 to 4,000 others potentially exposed. In an October report, the CDC detailed a large outbreak in Florida among amateur adult hockey players on two teams that played each other but had no other contact. Investigators speculated that the indoor space and close contact increased the infection risk. They also pointed out that ice hockey “involves vigorous physical exertion accompanied by deep, heavy respiration, and during the game, players frequently move from the ice surface to the bench while still breathing heavily.”

Surrounded by plexiglass not only to prevent errant pucks but also to keep the airflow stable so the ice can remain cold, there’s little ventilation and humidity by design in ice rinks. The surface of the ice is kept around 20 degrees Fahrenheit; the ambient air temperature, in the 50s. The Department of Homeland Security has shown in lab experiments that the virus may live at those temperatures up to two times longer in the air. At 86 degrees, for example, 99 percent of the airborne virus is estimated to decay in 52 minutes. But at 50 degrees, it would take 109 minutes.

In Vermont, an outbreak at a single ice rink ripped through the center of the state, affecting at least 20 towns in at least four counties, and seeding other outbreaks at several schools. By Oct. 30, when Vermont Gov. Phil Scott (R) detailed the outbreak at a press briefing, 473 contacts had been associated with it.

The previous paragraph is proof as to how sports specific spread leads to legitimate increases in community transmission. What follows is from a different article by ABC News in regards to how hockey is unique compared to other sports. Here's link...


https://abcnews.go.com/US/youth-hockey-emerges-coronavirus-threat-families-fight-stay/story?id=74232730

Please read the following from the article...

Dr. Michael Osterholm, a University of Minnesota epidemiologist and adviser to President-elect Joe Biden, said ice hockey rinks “pose a very unique risk" in terms of transmitting the COVID virus. Unlike warm air, where virus particles quickly rise and dissipate, cold air allows the virus to sink low toward the ice, where it can remain for a prolonged period of time, Osterholm explained. The science is exacerbated by players breathing heavily, which puts “out a tremendous amount of virus” if someone is already infected. “The virus literally gets trapped inside the boards and the walls of the ice rink because of the cold air,” Osterholm said. “Of all sporting venues, there's no question that ice rinks are really the highest risk for transmitting the virus.”

If you're unwilling to acknowledge Osterholm's expertise in regards to Covid, then you are truly be irrational. He's considered top 5 in the world of epidemiology. The larger point being, I provided numerous articles that actually do prove that the virus is not only being transmitted at the rink, during play/practice but, due to the nature of the rink and the atmosperic conditions inside of it, becoming infected IS much easier than that associated with other sports.

Unfortunately, the problem that you, Jeb, and Chuck have is that it doesn't matter where I provide the information from, or whether it's from experts that the vast majority of the rest of the world acknowledges are legitimate experts, if the information I provide contradicts your particular worldview, you immediately dismiss it out of hand and, accuse the "experts" who have done the research/provided that information as either compromised by political leanings or not "real" experts. For the umpteenth thousandth time, I challenge any of you guys to provide at least three links to information from legitimate science or medicine based sources that prove sports in general aren't a significant contributor to community spread. Because in the last 7 months I've requested this, I've literally not seen a single link from a legitimate source that counters that or any other highly debated aspect of taking the cautious approach being better for society than the less cautious one. To include the fact that masking and social distancing are the most effective mitigation strategies we have outside of the vaccines.

Here's an article from Forbes magazine. Not exactly a bastion of left-leaning thinking...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...vid-19-coronavirus-outbreaks/?sh=17b626177f9b

Also, I don't approach Covid from a standpoint of "fear". Rather, it's from a standpoint of respect. Have some Democratic mayors and governors enacted policies that are at times, inconsistent? Yes. However, their intentions in those decisions was to maximize overall safety and reduce preventable and unnecessary deaths. Whereas, Republican mayors and governors who choose to just "open it up" because the "cure can't be worse than the disease", despite the fact that the numbers clearly indicate the virus is running wild in their cities and states, are literally putting profits ahead of human health and safety.

Again, if the federal government would've simply done it's job by providing small business owners with enough money (grants not loans) through the point when a vaccine was widely available, along with providing all adults with a temporary monthly UBI payment until the majority of citizens have been vaccinated -- yes, paying people to stay home -- we wouldn't have had to force people to work in order to put food on the table if they didn't feel comfortable doing so.

But hey, unlike the billions of our tax dollars we spent keeping certain massive businesses/corporations afloat after the crash in 2008, using those same tax dollars to help keep small businesses from going under and individuals from losing their homes and/or having to go to a food shelf to feed their kids, is simply too much "SOCIALISM"... (rolls eyes)

Oh, speaking of masks and your (and Jeb's and Chuck's) attempts at downplaying their effectiveness in reducing spread; again, if you actually read what the science/medical experts are saying, you need to achieve 90 plus percent buy-in to significantly reduce community spread, in conjunction with following restrictions on unnecessary gatherings for them to achieve peak effectiveness. We are at 70% here in Minnesota. Meaning, it won't be nearly as effective as we want it to be. However, it does/has helped in reducing community spread to a degree. From when the statewide mask mandate went into affect in July thru the end of October, Minnesota was doing FAR better than it's immediate neighboring states (Wisc., Iowa, and the Dakotas) from the standpoint of keeping infection rate, hospitalization, and deaths at manageable levels. Despite those states' unwillingness to adopt similar mandates. Again, please provide three links from legitimate sources that show that masks are not effective at limiting community spread when used properly and in the appropriate numbers. As usual, I won't hold my breath waiting for the articles to appear because the reality is, they don't exist.
 
We can't escape it because net presence will not go aeay


J.D., if you don't think I'd rather be talking about actual hockey, then you're sadly mistaken. But hey, if you really want me to "go away", all you have to do is acknowledge the accuracy of my positions... (smiley face).
 
Gottlieb is the definition of a Charlatan. How you can't see that is amazing. You gobble it up. I don't care about your politics, interesting how you need to bring it into every post when no one posted anything political to the posts you are responding to. As far as Trump goes, did someone post something you would like me to address, I don't remember bringing anything about him up?

The things going on right now would have been classified as mental illness prior to this charade. Lockdowns, quarantines of healthy people, healthy people being told to pretend they are sick, masks, distancing, etc. That is why decades of data and research about pandemics prior to this year said such measures were not effective and too detrimental to society. And as we can see 9 months into this charade none of the measures are effective at all in what they claim to achieve and the "unintended" consequences are many.

As for the athletes. For the half million of them and their parents that is almost 1.5 million people you would think with all the danger that present, that there would be so many more opting to sit out?


Jeb, you make these claims -- "The things going on right now would have been classified as mental illness prior to this charade. Lockdowns, quarantines of healthy people, healthy people being told to pretend they are sick, masks, distancing, etc. That is why decades of data and research about pandemics prior to this year said such measures were not effective and too detrimental to society." -- yet, you never provide any supporting info. Yes, in regards to your claims about infections/hospitalizations you provide data. The question is, how valid/accurate is that data?. I'll be honest, I initially tried to follow your data regarding infections and hospitalizations but, a lot of it seemed to contradict itself and, none of it was supported by any individuals that the rest of the world views as legitimate experts.
 
Getting back to actual Hockey East hockey, Northeastern opens with an 8-2 pasting of Merrimack; Yukon drops BC; UNH edges Maine.
 
And none of us have any idea if this is related to COVID

In other news, the CDC has posthumously determined the deaths of Reggie Lewis, Len Bias, "Pistol Pete" Maravich and Hank Gathers were most likely related to COVID-19, as these tragic basketball situations just don't happen because of any other reason ever, hence it must have been the COVID that snagged them. Researchers are now looking into possible COVID ties to Ernie Davis, Brian Piccolo and Harry Agganis. Lou Gehrig's case was also being reviewed, but as they named a disease after him, that's where the CDC draws the line ...
 
Hockey Least- Providence the Typhoid Mary of Hockey East- shut down 3 times already for positive cases and there they are playing maskless. They are shameless but you would think other teams would have the balls to make them cover up
 
You are absolutely insufferable. I am glad they are not being forced to wear masks. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there won't be any COVID cases as a result of this game.
 
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