theprofromdover
The Original Dope Detector
Darwin’s law: Pack the house.
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Hockey East 2020-2021
- Thread starter jjmc85
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Darwin’s law: Pack the house.
Statistically speaking there actually isn't anything to be concerned about in this regard. It certainly doesn't warrant shutting down the world or altering life as we know it.
I am sure all of these student athletes and their families who don't agree with you one bit are so happy you are looking out for them with your non-sense.
That's one point I have made. By now, everyone is aware of the myocarditis regurgitators like net presence. These athletes have families and other resources who can help them decide if it's worth the "risk". And if they deem it not to be worth it they can opt out and keep their scholarship.
I'm guessing you didn't care about similar issues with other respiratory illnesses prior to Covid.
CovidZombies are a mess, probably better you stay in the basement. But then of course down there all you will have to do is whine about people living their lives and not acting hysterical like yourself.
net presence
Active member
Chuck....I'm sorry you ended up with a headache today. I really am. However, I doubt I was the cause. Also, I'm pretty confident I haven't posted anything that would come close to getting myself banned. But, I do appreciate your concern...Here's "Part 1" of my response... 
As for the prevalence of myocarditis and lung-scarring in post-Covid infected athletes, allow me to provide some evidence that supports my concerns.
First is an article from MEDPAGE TODAY that analyzes the potential long and short-term effects of myocarditis. Both in athletes and non-athletes. Here's the link:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88487
From the article: "One study found myocarditis in 15% of college athletes who tested positive, largely after mild or no symptoms."
"Myocarditis is the top concern around COVID-19 for college athletics, due to the risk it poses for cardiac arrhythmia and sudden cardiac death."
"Newly released European Society of Cardiology guidelines suggested that people with myocarditis should hold off on vigorous exercise likely for 3 to 6 months."
Next, here's a link to a Forbes article...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshua...oms-in-covid-19-long-haulers/?sh=2afa331b2be0
From the article... "Earlier this week the Washington Post featured an article on Covid-19 survivors in Bergamo, Italy, 50% of whom say they still haven’t fully recovered. Doctors interviewed in Bergamo discussed a follow-up study they conducted this summer of long-term patients. Among 750 patients screened, about 30% still have lung scarring and breathing trouble. Another 30% have problems of inflammation and clotting, including heart abnormalities and artery blockages."
"Preliminary, and as yet unpublished, data revealed that in the U.S. approximately 15% of a sample of college athletes who contracted the coronavirus - most of whom had experienced mild or no symptoms - were diagnosed with myocarditis. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart caused by a viral infection, such as the coronavirus, that can lead to rapid or abnormal heart rhythms and even sudden cardiac death."
Here's another article from "The Conversation" (from Nov. 4th)...
https://theconversation.com/even-if...res-what-student-athletes-need-to-know-149243
From the article... "New research now shows that even young people with COVID-19 who are asymptomatic are at risk for developing potentially dangerous inflammation around the heart. I am an imaging cardiologist who is developing diagnostic techniques to assess changes in heart muscle function in patients with COVID-19. In a study released Nov. 4, my colleagues and I found evidence of heart abnormalities in over one-third of student athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 and underwent cardiac screening at West Virginia University this fall. While we didn’t detect ongoing damage to the heart muscle itself, we frequently found evidence of inflammation and excess fluid in the pericardium, the sac around the heart. Almost all of the 54 students tested had either mild COVID-19 or were asymptomatic."
To help them develop standards, I and other cardiologists from the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia reviewed the current evidence and wrote an expert consensus statement. A similar statement focused on myocarditis was published by some of the same doctors in JAMA Cardiology.
We suggest the following:
As for the prevalence of myocarditis and lung-scarring in post-Covid infected athletes, allow me to provide some evidence that supports my concerns.
First is an article from MEDPAGE TODAY that analyzes the potential long and short-term effects of myocarditis. Both in athletes and non-athletes. Here's the link:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88487
From the article: "One study found myocarditis in 15% of college athletes who tested positive, largely after mild or no symptoms."
"Myocarditis is the top concern around COVID-19 for college athletics, due to the risk it poses for cardiac arrhythmia and sudden cardiac death."
"Newly released European Society of Cardiology guidelines suggested that people with myocarditis should hold off on vigorous exercise likely for 3 to 6 months."
Next, here's a link to a Forbes article...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshua...oms-in-covid-19-long-haulers/?sh=2afa331b2be0
From the article... "Earlier this week the Washington Post featured an article on Covid-19 survivors in Bergamo, Italy, 50% of whom say they still haven’t fully recovered. Doctors interviewed in Bergamo discussed a follow-up study they conducted this summer of long-term patients. Among 750 patients screened, about 30% still have lung scarring and breathing trouble. Another 30% have problems of inflammation and clotting, including heart abnormalities and artery blockages."
"Preliminary, and as yet unpublished, data revealed that in the U.S. approximately 15% of a sample of college athletes who contracted the coronavirus - most of whom had experienced mild or no symptoms - were diagnosed with myocarditis. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart caused by a viral infection, such as the coronavirus, that can lead to rapid or abnormal heart rhythms and even sudden cardiac death."
Here's another article from "The Conversation" (from Nov. 4th)...
https://theconversation.com/even-if...res-what-student-athletes-need-to-know-149243
From the article... "New research now shows that even young people with COVID-19 who are asymptomatic are at risk for developing potentially dangerous inflammation around the heart. I am an imaging cardiologist who is developing diagnostic techniques to assess changes in heart muscle function in patients with COVID-19. In a study released Nov. 4, my colleagues and I found evidence of heart abnormalities in over one-third of student athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 and underwent cardiac screening at West Virginia University this fall. While we didn’t detect ongoing damage to the heart muscle itself, we frequently found evidence of inflammation and excess fluid in the pericardium, the sac around the heart. Almost all of the 54 students tested had either mild COVID-19 or were asymptomatic."
To help them develop standards, I and other cardiologists from the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia reviewed the current evidence and wrote an expert consensus statement. A similar statement focused on myocarditis was published by some of the same doctors in JAMA Cardiology.
We suggest the following:
- Any student athlete testing positive for COVID-19 should follow quarantine rules and avoid exposing their teammates, coaches or anyone else to the virus.
- Before returning to play, athletes who test positive for COVID-19 should consult with their physicians to determine if heart screening tests are needed. Although routine testing is not recommended for all asymptomatic individuals, a physician should determine on an individual basis when the risks are high enough.
- If an athlete has active myocarditis, we recommend no competition or strenuous training for three to six months, with follow-up exams with a cardiologist. Exercise can worsen the disease’s progression and create arrhythmias, or irregular heartbeat. After that period, the athlete can gradually resume exercise and play if he or she has no lingering inflammation or arrhythmia.
- If an athlete has active features of pericarditis, we also recommend restricting exercise, since it can exacerbate inflammation or cause inflammation to return. Athletes should avoid competitive sports during the acute phase. Once tests show no inflammation or excess fluid, the athlete should be able to return to play.
net presence
Active member
Chuck... here's "Part 2" of my response...
Here's a link to an article from the "Scientific American"...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ur-heart-even-if-you-havent-had-any-symptoms/
From the article... From an offensive lineman at Indiana University dealing with possible heart issues to a University of Houston player opting out of the season because of “complications with my heart,” the news has been coming fast and furiously. More than a dozen athletes at Power Five conference schools have been identified as having myocardial injury following coronavirus infection, according to ESPN; two of the conferences—the Big Ten and the Pac-12—already have announced they are postponing all competitive sports until 2021. And in Major League Baseball, Boston Red Sox ace pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez told reporters that he felt “100 years old” as a result of his bout with COVID, and of MLB’s shortened season because of myocarditis—an inflammation of the heart muscle, often triggered by a virus. Said Rodriguez: “That’s [the heart is] the most important part of your body, so when you hear that … I was kind of scared a little. Now that I know what it is, it’s still scary.”
Why are these athletes (and their leagues and conferences) taking such extreme precautions? It’s because of the stakes. Though it often resolves without incident, myocarditis can lead to severe complications such as abnormal heart rhythms, chronic heart failure and even sudden death. Just a few weeks ago, a former Florida State basketball player, Michael Ojo, died of suspected heart complications just after recovering from a bout of COVID-19 in Serbia, where he was playing pro ball.
Here’s the background: Myocarditis appears to result from the direct infection of the virus attacking the heart, or possibly as a consequence of the inflammation triggered by the body’s overly aggressive immune response. And it is not age-specific: In The Lancet, doctors recently reported on an 11-year-old child with multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C)—a rare illness—who died of myocarditis and heart failure. At autopsy, pathologists were able to identify coronavirus particles present in the child’s cardiac tissue, helping to explain the virus’ direct involvement in her death. In fact, researchers are reporting the presence of viral protein in the actual heart muscle, of six deceased patients. Of note is the fact that these patients were documented to have died of lung failure, having had neither clinical signs of heart involvement, nor a prior history of cardiac disease.
Samuel called it “extremely dangerous” for athletes diagnosed with myocarditis to play competitive sports for at least three to six months, because of the risk of serious arrhythmia or sudden death, and several athletes already have made the decision to heed those dire warnings. We’ll likely see more such decisions in the very near future, as each sport enters its peak season.
Here's the last paragraph from the article for those like Chuck and Jeb who are constantly trying to say that masks, social distancing, and avoiding large gatherings is THE best way to prevent catching the virus...
"And for the rest of us? Wear a mask, social distance, avoid large gatherings, and spend more time in the great outdoors. I would echo the advice of J.N.: “Be careful. Just don’t get the virus in the beginning.” As of today, it’s still the best defense we’ve got...
To close, let's play this out under the current thought that between 10 and 15% of all collegiate athletes who contract Covid (many who're asymptomatic) develop some form of myocarditis. Approximately 480,000 athletes play at all levels of the NCAA (from the NCAA website). At the moment, Scott Gottlieb is estimating that by the end of this year approximately 30% of the U.S. population will have been infected. So, 30% of the 480,000 NCAA athletes is approximately 144,000. And, if even 10% of those who’ve contracted Covid have been also been diagnosed with some level of myocarditis, that’s a total of approximately 14,400 athletes who have likely developed some level of post-Covid infection myocarditis…
Above, you asked me… “On a serious note ... are you saying that a small handful of cases of myocarditis among tens of thousands of NCAA athletes is in any way comparable to the situation (some would say "epidemic") of NCAA athletes with concussions/head injuries, which have even more significant/extensive adverse outcomes than those who suffer from myocarditis (regardless of causation)?”
I’ll finish by answering your question with a question… Are you really going to try and argue that 14,400 meets the definition of “a small handful of cases of myocarditis?” If so, I think you’ll find you’ll be standing alone on that island.
Here's a link to an article from the "Scientific American"...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ur-heart-even-if-you-havent-had-any-symptoms/
From the article... From an offensive lineman at Indiana University dealing with possible heart issues to a University of Houston player opting out of the season because of “complications with my heart,” the news has been coming fast and furiously. More than a dozen athletes at Power Five conference schools have been identified as having myocardial injury following coronavirus infection, according to ESPN; two of the conferences—the Big Ten and the Pac-12—already have announced they are postponing all competitive sports until 2021. And in Major League Baseball, Boston Red Sox ace pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez told reporters that he felt “100 years old” as a result of his bout with COVID, and of MLB’s shortened season because of myocarditis—an inflammation of the heart muscle, often triggered by a virus. Said Rodriguez: “That’s [the heart is] the most important part of your body, so when you hear that … I was kind of scared a little. Now that I know what it is, it’s still scary.”
Why are these athletes (and their leagues and conferences) taking such extreme precautions? It’s because of the stakes. Though it often resolves without incident, myocarditis can lead to severe complications such as abnormal heart rhythms, chronic heart failure and even sudden death. Just a few weeks ago, a former Florida State basketball player, Michael Ojo, died of suspected heart complications just after recovering from a bout of COVID-19 in Serbia, where he was playing pro ball.
Here’s the background: Myocarditis appears to result from the direct infection of the virus attacking the heart, or possibly as a consequence of the inflammation triggered by the body’s overly aggressive immune response. And it is not age-specific: In The Lancet, doctors recently reported on an 11-year-old child with multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C)—a rare illness—who died of myocarditis and heart failure. At autopsy, pathologists were able to identify coronavirus particles present in the child’s cardiac tissue, helping to explain the virus’ direct involvement in her death. In fact, researchers are reporting the presence of viral protein in the actual heart muscle, of six deceased patients. Of note is the fact that these patients were documented to have died of lung failure, having had neither clinical signs of heart involvement, nor a prior history of cardiac disease.
Samuel called it “extremely dangerous” for athletes diagnosed with myocarditis to play competitive sports for at least three to six months, because of the risk of serious arrhythmia or sudden death, and several athletes already have made the decision to heed those dire warnings. We’ll likely see more such decisions in the very near future, as each sport enters its peak season.
Here's the last paragraph from the article for those like Chuck and Jeb who are constantly trying to say that masks, social distancing, and avoiding large gatherings is THE best way to prevent catching the virus...
"And for the rest of us? Wear a mask, social distance, avoid large gatherings, and spend more time in the great outdoors. I would echo the advice of J.N.: “Be careful. Just don’t get the virus in the beginning.” As of today, it’s still the best defense we’ve got...
To close, let's play this out under the current thought that between 10 and 15% of all collegiate athletes who contract Covid (many who're asymptomatic) develop some form of myocarditis. Approximately 480,000 athletes play at all levels of the NCAA (from the NCAA website). At the moment, Scott Gottlieb is estimating that by the end of this year approximately 30% of the U.S. population will have been infected. So, 30% of the 480,000 NCAA athletes is approximately 144,000. And, if even 10% of those who’ve contracted Covid have been also been diagnosed with some level of myocarditis, that’s a total of approximately 14,400 athletes who have likely developed some level of post-Covid infection myocarditis…
Above, you asked me… “On a serious note ... are you saying that a small handful of cases of myocarditis among tens of thousands of NCAA athletes is in any way comparable to the situation (some would say "epidemic") of NCAA athletes with concussions/head injuries, which have even more significant/extensive adverse outcomes than those who suffer from myocarditis (regardless of causation)?”
I’ll finish by answering your question with a question… Are you really going to try and argue that 14,400 meets the definition of “a small handful of cases of myocarditis?” If so, I think you’ll find you’ll be standing alone on that island.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
This is why Vegas is Vegas, folks. House wins again, on both fronts.
Back to the minors for you, nutty ...
NCAA watcher
Registered User
That data on "admissions" being normal doesn't align with the more-relevant ICU data and "on the ground" reports. Also, pointing out that some reported cases are through 35 or more CTs (when the vast majority are under that) and that there are some grey area covid deaths (where covid was suspected but not proven) pokes at the margins, but ignores the large number of undisputed cases. Hockey content- that's like questioning Gretzky's scoring prowess by pointing out that Gretzky got some unwarranted secondary assists.
Thankfully with the vaccine looking like it will return life to "normal" in six months, we don't have to make long term risk assessments about what risk we have to live with. It's only a question of what prudent things should we do now for six months. If that means postponing a few more hockey games for a month or two that seems pretty minor. And I say that as someone who is a bit more on the openness during this pandemic, visiting with parents and inlaws somewhat regularly this summer, and having seen the negative impact of lockdowns on one remote student who will now go off to a huge hotspot for second semester just to get on with life. This is, after all, a mass of grey judgments, not the black and white everyone is arguing based on ideology. Sadly, those arguing about it with ideology made it far worse by fighting basic measures like masks that would have helped.
And how anyone test ran this board "upgrade" and said "yes, this will help greatly" should be shot into the sun. Some company literally spent months planning and coding the upgrade, without anyone raising his or her hand in the back of the meeting to say "this is clunky and unworkable, and we're removing good features rather than adding them."
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Just picture the fist pump he did after finishing that data dump and hitting post. Must have pulled an all nighter on that one and now moving on to the next message board.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
No need to rely on imagination, J.D., here's an undercover live shot from the Faculty Lounge ...
net presence
Active member
Sooooo...not going to respond to any of the actual points/articles that clearly show myocarditis is a legitimate concern? Again I ask, does 14,400 athletes potentially developing post-Covid myocarditis meet your definition of "a small handful of cases of myocarditis"? C'mon buddy, engage. If you really believe all of the B.S. you and Jeb are spouting, respond to what I've provided.
net presence
Active member
wildcatfan_GoNH
New member
Question:
Having YouTube TV, and the recent lack of NESN that has been scrubbed from their platform, how does one watch the NESN/NESN+ games living inside of New England? It appears to watch NESN games on the NESN wedsite a TV provider login is needed. Anyone have a solution or a method to ideally watch HE hockey for free?
Having YouTube TV, and the recent lack of NESN that has been scrubbed from their platform, how does one watch the NESN/NESN+ games living inside of New England? It appears to watch NESN games on the NESN wedsite a TV provider login is needed. Anyone have a solution or a method to ideally watch HE hockey for free?
Won't 14,400 athletes potentially develop post covid myocarditis when they go home for Christmas break and party like rock stars with all their friends who go to other schools? You are missing the point that playing a sport is not increasing the risk. In fact, due to repeated testing and strict team rules, I would argue that they are in fact safer.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
You flatter yourself, nummy. I'm only glad you decided to chase me over here with your pathetic and (as demonstrated) very predictable drivel, so more normal folks could catch your act outside of the Faculty Lounge "bubble". I've been trying to be polite, and I should have stuck to my guns long ago and continued to ignore you, but to cut to the chase ... you have issues.
Honestly, seek help, or at least spend more time with your family. I'm not your "buddy". I'm out.
Man you are a Dolt.
Why don't you go pass out leaflets to the half a million student athletes and their families across the country. You could beg them to go hide in their basement until this all passes and share that you care more for them than they could ever care for themselves.
On a side note did you quote Scott Gottlieb? Do you have any clue how much he is profiting from all of this? Man you just eat it up.
https://jordanschachtel.substack.com...scott-gottlieb
What is the most common cause of myocarditis?
Viral infection is the most common cause of myocarditis. When you have one, your body produces cells to fight the virus. These cells release chemicals. If the disease-fighting cells enter your heart, some chemicals they release can inflame your heart muscle.
Does myocarditis go away?
In many cases, myocarditis improves on its own or with treatment, leading to a complete recovery. Myocarditis treatment focuses on the cause and the symptoms.
I am sure you cared so dearly about these type of issues prior to 2020.
Well, Dick Hinch will not be there. Nor Charlie Parker. RIP, both.
net presence
Active member
Rightnut... Is it possible athletes that go home and party become infected from that activity (partying/hanging with friends)? Absolutely. I've never said otherwise. However, you are flat out wrong that playing a sport -- especially hockey as we come to find out -- doesn't increase the likelihood that individual players, coaches, officials, trainers, and equipment managers. Is college hockey, with the amount of testing that the NCAA is strongly recommending, safer than youth, high school, or Junior hockey, where there isn't ANY required testing? Yep.
However, the required testing doesn't eliminate the risk completely. Obviously, since players continue to become infected despite the fact most of these teams have been doing the testing since October. The bigger issue is that people like Chuck and Jeb and others argue that sports should be played from the standpoint that the chance of dying is less than 1%. Which is true for people of the age of these athletes and with their levels of physical fitness. As if dying is the only possible negative outcome to becoming infected. For months now my larger point is that dying IS NOT the only negative outcome. The possibility of developing post-infection myocarditis and lung scarring being two of the more serious possibilities.
What is comical is that whenever I present information that definitively proves these issues are real and occurring, Jeb and Chuck and others refuse to acknowledge it or address it in any of their responses. Actually, Chuck finally did in one of his more recent responses by stating, "are you saying that a small handful of cases of myocarditis among tens of thousands of NCAA athletes is in any way comparable to the situation (some would say "epidemic") of NCAA athletes with concussions/head injuries, which have even more significant/extensive adverse outcomes than those who suffer from myocarditis (regardless of causation)?" I respond with numerous articles from respected sources that show/prove that myocarditis is occurring between 5-10% of those infected which means that just in NCAA athletes alone there could easily be over 14,000 individuals (many being asymptomatic) who develop some sort of significant, post-infection issue. And how do both Jeb and Chuck respond? With their usual ad hominem attacks.
The point is, any activity that definitively increases chances of infections and community spread, which in turn increases hospitalizations and, in turn deaths, yet, is an activity that isn't absolutely necessary for basic daily needs, can be argued is an unnecessary activity. Like it or not, those in administrative leadership positions -- elected or appointed -- are going to err on the side of extreme caution. Especially when potential legal liability is still so unclear. Well....unless it's an elected position and the person elected is a Republican. I apologize for throwing politics into my response but, it is simply a fact that the only people in elected leadership positions that choose not to follow the accepted science are Republicans. Why do you think UAF just pulled out of the rest of this season? It's because the administrators of the other WCHA schools decided they didn't want the added risks of infection by having their teams do the extensive travel to Fairbanks. Thus, UAF really didn't have many other options but to choose not to play.
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