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History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

I finally caught onto Hardcore History after bbdl mentioned it to me (again) and I got a small taste of it this past weekend.

I’m blown away by this series. The Blueprint for Armageddon is jaw dropping.

The Roman Empire fell. The British Empire fell (and look how little area they've had at least an influence in, around the globe).

And if you want to get Biblical, there will be 3 World Wars. The third will end everything. Well, we've had two...with technology now...yeah, I'd say the third would be the last one we have.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

The Roman Empire fell. The British Empire fell (and look how little area they've had at least an influence in, around the globe).

And if you want to get Biblical, there will be 3 World Wars. The third will end everything. Well, we've had two...with technology now...yeah, I'd say the third would be the last one we have.

What are you talking about?
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

What are you talking about?

Right now you have the power nations. An extension of an empire. They will fall. It's a matter of when. History has shown it. The US is divided, Russia (in the Cold War era) eventually dropped a notch, although now it's back. You have Brexit (maybe)...

There will be a regime change. China could basically dictate everything the way the US is trying to do now...I dunno.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

Right now you have the power nations. An extension of an empire. They will fall. It's a matter of when. History has shown it. The US is divided, Russia (in the Cold War era) eventually dropped a notch, although now it's back. You have Brexit (maybe)...

There will be a regime change. China could basically dictate everything the way the US is trying to do now...I dunno.

This has very little to do with the content of Blueprint for Armegeddon...an episode in the podcast Hardcore History...
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

This has very little to do with the content of Blueprint for Armegeddon...an episode in the podcast Hardcore History...

Armegeddon has to do with the end of world, correct? This is simply my take on that stance.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

Armegeddon has to do with the end of world, correct? This is simply my take on that stance.
It's the name of the episode about how we got to the point of being able to blow up the world.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

JUst got done with Episode III.

It's hard not to listen to the story of the western front and not be moved to tears when hearing the true horrors of World War I. We all know the atrocities of WWII, but I didn't know just how horrifying the trench warfare and gas attacks of WWI were. I was listening in my car and when I got to the store I had to just sit there and contemplate what I had just heard. It's enough to make someone ill. When he described the spongy floors of the trenches due to the bodies that had been abandoned there, I was just numb.
 
JUst got done with Episode III.

It's hard not to listen to the story of the western front and not be moved to tears when hearing the true horrors of World War I. We all know the atrocities of WWII, but I didn't know just how horrifying the trench warfare and gas attacks of WWI were. I was listening in my car and when I got to the store I had to just sit there and contemplate what I had just heard. It's enough to make someone ill. When he described the spongy floors of the trenches due to the bodies that had been abandoned there, I was just numb.

I don’t think either of the World Wars are taught very well here. I’ve spent a fair amount of time reading on WWII this year and honestly it makes me a bit ashamed of our country.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

I don’t think either of the World Wars are taught very well here. I’ve spent a fair amount of time reading on WWII this year and honestly it makes me a bit ashamed of our country.

I've read about, and learned about WWII quite a bit, and this is the first I've ever heard anyone take this kind of stance. It is truly baffling how someone could come to this kind of conclusion.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

I've read about, and learned about WWII quite a bit, and this is the first I've ever heard anyone take this kind of stance. It is truly baffling how someone could come to this kind of conclusion.

Other than the Japanese internment camps...I'm not sure what he's talking about
 
Other than the Japanese internment camps...I'm not sure what he's talking about

We should have done more to help England earlier on in the war.

Edit: we also could have done a lot more to shut down the concentration camps too. Bombing rail lines and things like that.
 
We should have done more to help England earlier on in the war.

Edit: we also could have done a lot more to shut down the concentration camps too. Bombing rail lines and things like that.

Roosevelt was dealing with an isolationist country. It took Pearl Harbor to end it.

As to the concentration camps, Herman Wouck wrote about the "will not to believe." I believe a large segment of the allied governments did not believe the Nazis had industrialized genocide.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

We should have done more to help England earlier on in the war.

Edit: we also could have done a lot more to shut down the concentration camps too. Bombing rail lines and things like that.

I'm pretty sure we didn't know the full extent of the concentration camps until we were nearing the final chapters of the war.

Also, the war needed to be won first. Back then, you didn't put the entire theater at risk by spending lives and resources to stop something that wasn't well understood and wasn't critical to the war effort. As sh-tty as that sounds, imagine if we had diverted resources and it delayed winning the war by months or even years. Or worse, imagine if we had devoted significant resources to that and we lost the war. It's the same reason why the Enigma codebreakers allowed hundreds or even thousands of civilians to be killed on merchant ships. They knew you don't risk the war to save a few. You could go even further down this line of thought and think about the ramifications of ending the war in the Pacific with nuclear weapons. Allied Forces had estimated 750,000 Allied casualties and another two years to complete the Invasion of Japan. Do you kill 200,000 people on their side or nearly a million on our side and who knows how many million soldiers and civilians on Japan's? But I completely digress.

Also, I think there's a bit of revisionist history in why we had delayed getting involved in the war. I think 70 years ago, the horrors of WWI were still fresh in the minds of the nation. We were very reluctant to go hot in another continental war. In retrospect, yeah, we should have. But 70 years ago we weren't exactly eager to get involved in another conflict that could cost us a significant amount of money (WWI cost us somewhere between $0.25 trillion and $1 trillion in 2018 dollars) and lives (117,000). From the time the war started until we got involved, even if we had gotten involved in the war on day one, however you define that, it would have taken us months to mobilize for war. We had already begun to mobilize well before we actually declared war on Japan. To start that mobilization on 9/1/1939 it would have taken until spring at a minimum to organize the draft (1940 was the first peacetime conscription law passed in the US) and build up the machinery necessary. Even with the neutral stance for so long and the pre-war mobilization efforts, the US still couldn't enter the western theater until 11 months after Pearl Harbor.

Honestly, I think we probably made the right calls at the time. We can argue about it, but it would take a very compelling argument to convince me otherwise.
 
Re: History - questioning the winners and how we arrived at this point

US was isolated
Who didn’t get into the League of Nations?
 
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