Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Agreed, and it's not common to have that opportunity, so you have to take advantage.

I think what got this started for me was pakidnyc's comment that Cornell won the Ivy League title. That statement was not entirely correct because Harvard still has two Ivy games to go and can share the title. Had the blizzard not occurred, the Crimson might have clinched a share of the title after the Yale game on the 9th if they had swept that weekend. I'm not sure we would have had a trophy celebration at that point. Like I said, I understand that Cornell's final home game was against Dartmouth and that the tie assured them of at least a share of the title. But as it stands now, it is not an outright League Championship and I think that if you share the title, you shouldn't necessarily have a trophy presentation because you are not the outright champion. Same for Harvard. Let's just agree to disagree and stop beating a dead horse. Okay?

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I think what got this started for me was pakidnyc's comment that Cornell won the Ivy League title. That statement was not entirely correct because Harvard still has two Ivy games to go and can share the title.

Yes, pakidnyc referred to "the trophy", and I understood why you got worked up over that, and my first post in this discussion criticized the reference to "the trophy." Your reaction was totally reasonable.

But as it stands now, it is not an outright League Championship and I think that if you share the title, you shouldn't necessarily have a trophy presentation because you are not the outright champion. Same for Harvard. Let's just agree to disagree and stop beating a dead horse. Okay?

If you're dead set on that view, then fine. But I didn't think I was beating a dead horse by chiming in with my opinion that having the opportunity to celebrate a title in front of your home fans is rare, even it's clinching a co-championship when the number of co-champions has yet to be decided. I would worry about my home fans first and the feelings of the potential co-champions second. I wasn't sure if everyon had considered that point of view yet. But if you had, and your opinion did not change, then so be it.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Yes, pakidnyc referred to "the trophy", and I understood why you got worked up over that, and my first post in this discussion criticized the reference to "the trophy." Your reaction was totally reasonable.


If you're dead set on that view, then fine. But I didn't think I was beating a dead horse by chiming in with my opinion that having the opportunity to celebrate a title in front of your home fans is rare, even it's clinching a co-championship when the number of co-champions has yet to be decided. I would worry about my home fans first and the feelings of the potential co-champions second. I wasn't sure if everyon had considered that point of view yet. But if you had, and your opinion did not change, then so be it.

My intent was not to point fingers so I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Schools will do what they feel is best for the students and fans and I get that. I've just never been a part of a league that awarded a trophy prior to knowing if the team that captured the trophy won it outright. In fact in one instance, we had to wait until the final day before awarding any trophies because we were not sure if we were winning it outright or sharing it with another team. Again, my intent was not to mock anyone and if my language was harsh, I apologize.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

The discussion of the IVY LEAGUE Championship prompts two observations, one facetious and one that should delight our more statistically adept co-posters.

1. (facetious) Shouldn't the IVY LEAGUE champion get an autobid in women's ice hockey, since (this year, at the moment) it includes two national top-five teams? And since the league gets an autobid in men's basketball?

2. (math problem). When Mike Lynch won Harvard's first outright IVY LEAGUE championship in '75 with his eagle-eyed kick from the hashmark, and people remarked that Harvard had previously tied for the crown a number of times but never won outright, one explanation was that "it's hard for anyone to win an outright championship in an eight-team league if you play only once against each opponent." Having approached no closer to serious mathematics than the old Nat Sci 2 (History of Physics for Poets), I have a vague notion that factorials of 7 are somehow involved.

My question is, is how much less likely is it to have an outright champion in football (8 teams playing once) than in hockey (6 teams playing twice) or in basketball (8 teams playing twice)?

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I thought the Horse was declared dead.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I thought the Horse was declared dead.

And more importantly, there is a hockey game on tonight, with something at stake for both teams.

 

[Hux]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

The discussion of the IVY LEAGUE Championship prompts two observations, one facetious and one that should delight our more statistically adept co-posters.

1. (facetious) Shouldn't the IVY LEAGUE champion get an autobid in women's ice hockey, since (this year, at the moment) it includes two national top-five teams? And since the league gets an autobid in men's basketball?

2. (math problem). When Mike Lynch won Harvard's first outright IVY LEAGUE championship in '75 with his eagle-eyed kick from the hashmark, and people remarked that Harvard had previously tied for the crown a number of times but never won outright, one explanation was that "it's hard for anyone to win an outright championship in an eight-team league if you play only once against each opponent." Having approached no closer to serious mathematics than the old Nat Sci 2 (History of Physics for Poets), I have a vague notion that factorials of 7 are somehow involved.

My question is, is how much less likely is it to have an outright champion in football (8 teams playing once) than in hockey (6 teams playing twice) or in basketball (8 teams playing twice)?

Simple. The Ivies bail from the ECACHL, and the Ivy League becomes its own conference, and has its own championship.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Hux's post makes me nostalgic for the Good Old Days when BC and NU were still in the ECAC! We lost our Beanpot rivals in exchange for some very long bus rides to New York state.

But then I've never gotten over the Cambridge Latin Cantabs and the Watertown Rifles dropping out of the Bay State League, either....

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Simple. The Ivies bail from the ECACHL, and the Ivy League becomes its own conference, and has its own championship.

Don't tell that to all those smart folks at the Ivies. They might just do that, to increase the number of Auto bids to 5.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

But then I've never gotten over the Cambridge Latin Cantabs and the Watertown Rifles dropping out of the Bay State League, either....

Ah ha. Now I know what Papulaisle is talking about when he is referring to the "Cantabs", when talking about the institution on the north shore of the Charles River.

 

[Veritas]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Ah ha. Now I know what Papulaisle is talking about when he is referring to the "Cantabs", when talking about the institution on the north shore of the Charles River.

OnMAA - Cantabrigian is the demonym for people from Cambridge. Long used for Cambridge in the UK, also long used for the eponymous Massachusetts city

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

OnMAA - Cantabrigian is the demonym for people from Cambridge. Long used for Cambridge in the UK, also long used for the eponymous Massachusetts city

Thanks for that info. You learn something interesting/new everyday.

 

[Veritas]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I have season tickets for both women's and men's hockey but decided to stay home and keep my sprained foot elevated and iced.
No WHRB coverage so was reduced to watching "live stats" but it seemed a much chippier game than usual. Anybody out there that was at Bright to comment?

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Okay, so one down, one to go for the Ivy Championship (shared). First, a BIG weekend coming up against SLU and Clarkson.

Tonight's game was nothing more than a scrimmage. This should have been a double figure game for Harvard. They had so many chances that they could not finish. Hilary Crowe had two glorious close in bids. There were several tip attempts that just missed. Brown's D consistently got turned the wrong way and flatfooted at the same time which is a prescription for disaster. Three of Harvard's five goals came on break-ins where the Brown D was nowhere to be seen. Even with the score 2-1 in the second period, you really couldn't get concerned because 90% of the time, the puck was in the Brown zone. It was that one-sided.

Lyndsey Fry was all over the ice tonight, easily the best player by a mile. Her two breakaway goals were things of beauty and if the ECAC had the shootout, I'd say Lyndsey would dominate. When she gets her wheels going, she is something to watch.

Our D played well in stretches but had some breakdowns. Brown had only four or five decent scoring opportunities all night and they cashed in on two of them. Maschmeyer did not have a great game but she didn't have much work and there were long periods where she just stood there and watched. Hard to focus in such a one-sided game.

Kalley Armstrong didn't play tonight so the lines were jumbled and with the one-sided nature of the game, everyone got to play at least one or two shifts. Hope that Kalley is okay. Don't know if she is injured or sick. Apparently the flu is making the rounds at Harvard these days.

Bring on the Saints and the Knights. Should be a great weekend of hockey.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I have season tickets for both women's and men's hockey but decided to stay home and keep my sprained foot elevated and iced.
No WHRB coverage so was reduced to watching "live stats" but it seemed a much chippier game than usual. Anybody out there that was at Bright to comment?

Hope you are feeling better. With the rain, it would have been a challenge getting to and from your mode of transport. You can order video of the home games online - check out gocrimson.com.

The game really wasn't chippy at all. A lot of senseless penalties on both sides but nothing flagrant that I could see. If anything, the Brown players would skate into each other trying to force a Harvard player to cough up the puck. It was comical unless you are a Brown fan.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I was looking at the PWR just now and the race to host an NCAA QF and earn No. 4 seed. Harvard is ahead of BU by a pinch, but this more of an artifact of the antiquated way common opponents is calculated in the PWR. By any sensible comparison, BU is ahead of Harvard, mainly because it went 3-1 & 1-1-1 vs. Northeastern & BC respectively, while Harvard went 1-0 & 0-1, and these are the games that pretty much decide two of the criteria at the moment. Also Harvard's tie vs. UNH will hurt if BU improves to 2-1 vs. UNH tonight.

With teams this close, it'll likely be about who finishes better down the stretch as it should, but Harvard is in reality probably slightly behind not slightly ahead. And likely whether Harvard or BU host a QF probably isn't such a huge deal if they end up playing each other anyway.

 

[pakidnyc]

I was looking at the PWR just now and the race to host an NCAA QF and earn No. 4 seed. Harvard is ahead of BU by a pinch, but this more of an artifact of the antiquated way common opponents is calculated in the PWR. By any sensible comparison, BU is ahead of Harvard, mainly because it went 3-1 & 1-1-1 vs. Northeastern & BC respectively, while Harvard went 1-0 & 0-1, and these are the games that pretty much decide two of the criteria at the moment. Also Harvard's tie vs. UNH will hurt if BU improves to 2-1 vs. UNH tonight.

With teams this close, it'll likely be about who finishes better down the stretch as it should, but Harvard is in reality probably slightly behind not slightly ahead. And likely whether Harvard or BU host a QF probably isn't such a huge deal if they end up playing each other anyway.

I would say Harvard should be ranked ahead of BU because they are neck in neck (splitting with Cornell as an example), but just last week Harvard beat BU 3-0.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

I would say Harvard should be ranked ahead of BU because they are neck in neck (splitting with Cornell as an example), but just last week Harvard beat BU 3-0.

Sure, I would vote Harvard ahead if I had a poll vote, but there's no selection criteria rewarding the timing of results, and Harvard and BU have split the season series one apiece. At the moment BU has the slightly better results against common opponents and the RPI top 12, while Harvard has the slightly better RPI, so I expect BU would have the edge if the season ended today.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Sure, I would vote Harvard ahead if I had a poll vote, but there's no selection criteria rewarding the timing of results, and Harvard and BU have split the season series one apiece. At the moment BU has the slightly better results against common opponents and the RPI top 12, while Harvard has the slightly better RPI, so I expect BU would have the edge if the season ended today.

One thing I don't understand about RPI. Holy Cross and St. Anselm are listed in the RPI even though they haven't played nearly as many games against ranked opponents under consideration for an RPI ranking. How can this be? Doesn't this skew the positioning for teams like Harvard, BU, Cornell and BC? I wasn't aware that Holy Cross was a D-1 program. Will this factor into NCAA seeding for the tournament? I would think Pairwise would have greater impact but again, I don't follow this part of college hockey so I'm sort of wandering in the woods on this one.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson Women 2012-2013

Also, doesn't travel factor into NCAA seedings? I know we've discussed this topic before on this board and it seems to me that the committee favors shorter distances for opponents facing each other in the quarters. For Harvard and BU, it wouldn't matter as they are geographically as close as you can get and I'm sure that will be taken into consideration based on what happens going forward.