HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

These comments about the early 80s are comical. No **** guys! We all dream about those heydays.

Check out Lane MacDonald's freshman stats and compare them to Louis Leblanc's. That should give you a real glimpse into what we are dealing with now...different game, different level of competition in the ECAC, different options for New England players...the list could go on and on and on.

There aren't many Scott Fuscos coming out of Belmont Hill these days, are there? Would Fusco even be at Belmont Hill or would he be playing at the USNDT or the USHL?

Do you think Harvard has started to recruit more Canadien players because they want to? They have had to go to Ontario because the Mass & Prep Hockey isn't what it once was.

Let's start dealing with reality!

 

[ALONZO]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I was tounge and cheek on bball schedule. Realatively speaking, hockey plays tougher level... Both bball and hockey are tough but I would say hockey is all in tougher.

Sorry.....but again I totally disagree.

GO CRIMSON!

 

[Skate79]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Teddy's hockey pedigree along with his familiarity with Harvard and the ECAC made him a natural choice to replace Mazz. His coaching inexperience is definitely hurting him at the moment. He admitted as much in an article last year. Not every coach that returns to his alma mater enjoys great success year after year (see Gaudet, Dartmouth). Plenty of coaches who are good people and run clean programs fall victim to ADs that want to win now. I don't know how much longer Scalise will accept the losing given the success of other programs at Harvard.

The money issue is real. Not only does Harvard skimp on athletics (I got a call from a basketball playing alum who shocked me with some ridiculous examples of Harvard's penny pinching ways (their meal money and travel allowances for recruiting are laughable), but their pay scale isn't the greatest either. If Teddy is asked to leave or leaves on his own accord, it will be hard to recruit an experienced coach unless we ante up. Does anyone see that happening? I don't. That leaves another inexperienced coach to learn on the job. It took Nate Leaman several years to turn Union into a strong program and on this board, I saw plenty of ranting that Leaman should be fired. I bet those same posters are now regretting that he has left for Providence.

Teddy probably has a couple of more years to turn things around. After that, I would imagine that Scalise will make a move especially if the recruiting doesn't improve. And for those who continue to believe that we have plenty of talent, you could not be more wrong. We don't have the players who can compete against HE let alone the ECAC. You don't finish 10th by accident. You can hide weaknesses for only so long. Eventually it catches up to you. Both is right about Fusco and MacDonald not walking through that door. Not going to happen. Yale is enjoying a great ride but it will eventually turn for them as well. As it did for Princeton. The Ivies aren't winning a national championship any time soon.

 

[ALONZO]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

The money issue is real. Not only does Harvard skimp on athletics (I got a call from a basketball playing alum who shocked me with some ridiculous examples of Harvard's penny pinching ways (their meal money and travel allowances for recruiting are laughable), but their pay scale isn't the greatest either. If Teddy is asked to leave or leaves on his own accord, it will be hard to recruit an experienced coach unless we ante up. Does anyone see that happening? I don't. That leaves another inexperienced coach to learn on the job. It took Nate Leaman several years to turn Union into a strong program and on this board, I saw plenty of ranting that Leaman should be fired. I bet those same posters are now regretting that he has left for Providence.

Teddy probably has a couple of more years to turn things around. After that, I would imagine that Scalise will make a move especially if the recruiting doesn't improve. And for those who continue to believe that we have plenty of talent, you could not be more wrong. We don't have the players who can compete against HE let alone the ECAC. You don't finish 10th by accident. You can hide weaknesses for only so long. Eventually it catches up to you. Both is right about Fusco and MacDonald not walking through that door. Not going to happen. Yale is enjoying a great ride but it will eventually turn for them as well. As it did for Princeton. The Ivies aren't winning a national championship any time soon.

I think Harvard will pay what is necessary to procure a new competent coach. Between the University and the Friends (alumni) we found a way to do it for Murphy, Amaker and Parker as well as for some of the womens' coaches. Mens hockey is a proud flagship sport at Harvard. The embarrassment of recent years, particularly in the Beanpot, can only go on so long. There is a strong base of influential and wealthy hockey alumni in the Boston area who I would think are reaching the end of their tolerance.

I thought something would be done a year ago or certainly after this last season. I simply can't see Scalise accepting another sub-.500 season.

GO CRIMSON!

 

[sam12]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Not that it really is the point of the main discussion, but I would have to agree that Harvard hockey plays tougher competition than basketball, almost without a doubt. Not taking anything away from basketball, I love what Amaker has done and I see them making the tournament next year.

Also, we talk about how academic standards are such a hindrance to Ivy schools, but I have to disagree, or at least downplay. I have heard of a lot of marginal students getting into Harvard and other Ivy's for hockey. A consistent winning program can be built at an Ivy, but it requires the right atmosphere and coach. Yale is on the way with Allain, and while there may be steps back, I think it can be sustained. I thought Princeton was on the right track (until Gadowsky left), and while 2 years ago they were 12-16, last year, with a really young team, they were 17-13, and just about made the tournament. The right coach goes a long way.

 

[troyboy]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Cornell has one real advantage and it's difficult to know the implications without each school opening up the books on the players. Cornell has a lower AI threshold and thus, can recruit and accept kids that Harvard can't because athletes must fall within one standard deviation of the non-athletic student body population - Cornell's non-student AI is lower than Harvard's.

How this has translated is impossible to know, but again, in theory, Cornell can recruit kids that Harvard can't.

This is not a knock on Cornell but if you look at their roster at least app.80% of their players attend the college of Agriculture and Life Sciences which do to the fact that it is a Land Grant College I believe is somehow affiliated w/the State University of NY...and also contains their school of cummunications which I presume most players are in....Don't know what that means but I believe communcations is the major of choice for Football programs such as UMiami...I also don't know if H has such endeavers of study avialiable to their Athelete/Students.It is my understanding that this school, the School of Hotel Motel Management, and their school of Labor Relations are all quasi state school's contained within Cornell If I'm wrong I stand corrected.If this is correct I have to believe Cornell is an easier(recruiting/admissions) lift that Harvard...BTW fan of neither.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

This is not a knock on Cornell but if you look at their roster at least app.80% of their players attend the college of Agriculture and Life Sciences which do to the fact that it is a Land Grant College I believe is somehow affiliated w/the State University of NY...and also contains their school of cummunications which I presume most players are in....Don't know what that means but I believe communcations is the major of choice for Football programs such as UMiami...I also don't know if H has such endeavers of study avialiable to their Athelete/Students.It is my understanding that this school, the School of Hotel Motel Management, and their school of Labor Relations are all quasi state school's contained within Cornell If I'm wrong I stand corrected.If this is correct I have to believe Cornell is an easier(recruiting/admissions) lift that Harvard...BTW fan of neither.

Well, you have some info that's mostly on the right track. Corrections:

1) only 15 of the 26 players on last year's roster were in the Ag & Life Science School (57%)

2) The Ag school not only contains communications, but also the closest thing Cornell offers to an undergrad business degree, which is usually a popular choice with hockey players. I'm guessing that if you surveyed most schools, you would find a higher proportion of their athletes in what were perceived to be "easier" majors - Cornell is hardly unique in this regard.

3) The three "contract colleges" (operated on contract for the state of NY) are actually Ag, Industrial and Labor Relations, and Human Ecology. Hotel Management is a regular private college.

4) Cornell does have easier admissions than Harvard, but not (directly) because those schools are "quasi state schools." For example, Hotel usually has the lowest stats (e.g. SATs, class rank, etc) but it is a private college. Cornell still sets and administers the admissions policy for the contract colleges - to apply to one of those schools, you still apply directly to Cornell, not through the SUNY system. Cornell has easier admissions because it offers a far greater range of studies than Harvard (and is much, much larger than Harvard). Harvard has more valedictorians apply each year than they have spots in the freshman class, so of course they are going to end up with the more selective admissions process.

 

[troyboy]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Well, you have some info that's mostly on the right track. Corrections:

1) only 15 of the 26 players on last year's roster were in the Ag & Life Science School (57%)

2) The Ag school not only contains communications, but also the closest thing Cornell offers to an undergrad business degree, which is usually a popular choice with hockey players. I'm guessing that if you surveyed most schools, you would find a higher proportion of their athletes in what were perceived to be "easier" majors - Cornell is hardly unique in this regard.

3) The three "contract colleges" (operated on contract for the state of NY) are actually Ag, Industrial and Labor Relations, and Human Ecology. Hotel Management is a regular private college.

4) Cornell does have easier admissions than Harvard, but not (directly) because those schools are "quasi state schools." For example, Hotel usually has the lowest stats (e.g. SATs, class rank, etc) but it is a private college. Cornell still sets and administers the admissions policy for the contract colleges - to apply to one of those schools, you still apply directly to Cornell, not through the SUNY system. Cornell has easier admissions because it offers a far greater range of studies than Harvard (and is much, much larger than Harvard). Harvard has more valedictorians apply each year than they have spots in the freshman class, so of course they are going to end up with the more selective admissions process.

Thanks for the info...like I said wasn't going anywhere with that....In fact I'm an RPI fan and we have a business school which most of our players major in.Just trying to make the point that Teddy has some challenges recruiting other school may not have.

 

[Skate79]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I think Harvard will pay what is necessary to procure a new competent coach. Between the University and the Friends (alumni) we found a way to do it for Murphy, Amaker and Parker as well as for some of the womens' coaches. Mens hockey is a proud flagship sport at Harvard. The embarrassment of recent years, particularly in the Beanpot, can only go on so long. There is a strong base of influential and wealthy hockey alumni in the Boston area who I would think are reaching the end of their tolerance.

I thought something would be done a year ago or certainly after this last season. I simply can't see Scalise accepting another sub-.500 season.

GO CRIMSON!

I hope you are right. I'm really curious to see how long Scalise will stay with Teddy. It would be hard to can an alum who has Olympic and pro experience but if Teddy can't "figure it out" as a coach and we continue to lose recruiting battles, Scalise will probably pull the plug. If it happens, I hope he goes for a high profile coach or one who has the kind of connections that can land us players that can compete against the Beanpot schools. I'm sick and tired of losing to those guys year after year.

 

[redlight11]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Isn't part of the problem that they have won many of the recruiting battles and the results have not followed?

 

[Hokydad]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

didnt they win the recruiting battle for Calof but admissions bumped him out, who in turn was picked up the exact same day from Princeton. He than became the ECAC rookie of the eyar.

Didnt they just lose another player therough admissions and BC picked up the next day

Sounds like he is winning and THAN LOSING.....

 

[H60Hockey]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I'm with you redlight. If you read the pedigree of many of the recruits from the past three years we have plenty of talent on hand, we just haven't been able to make a team out of it. Isn't that Teddy's job? And Calof did commit to Harvard and yes, Princeton picked him up the same day we passed on him; I can't fault Teddy for that.

BTW Leblanc had 36 g, 35 a in 61 games for the Montreal Juniors.

 

[canadianhockeyguy]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I saw this article and thought that perhaps this might be a chance for Harvard to return the favor after Princeton snapped up Calof last year:

http://centraljuniorhockeyleague.ca/view/CJHL/news/news_26408

Having seen both of them play, I have to say that despite Hyman's awards I think Calof will be the better college player. Anyway, I just thought it would something of interest to Harvard fans. I know the admission cycle has passed, but we all know that late apps for athletes are a possibility (although admittedly not the norm) at the Ivies.

 

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Well, you have some info that's mostly on the right track. Corrections:

1) only 15 of the 26 players on last year's roster were in the Ag & Life Science School (57%)

2) The Ag school not only contains communications, but also the closest thing Cornell offers to an undergrad business degree, which is usually a popular choice with hockey players. I'm guessing that if you surveyed most schools, you would find a higher proportion of their athletes in what were perceived to be "easier" majors - Cornell is hardly unique in this regard.

3) The three "contract colleges" (operated on contract for the state of NY) are actually Ag, Industrial and Labor Relations, and Human Ecology. Hotel Management is a regular private college.

4) Cornell does have easier admissions than Harvard, but not (directly) because those schools are "quasi state schools." For example, Hotel usually has the lowest stats (e.g. SATs, class rank, etc) but it is a private college. Cornell still sets and administers the admissions policy for the contract colleges - to apply to one of those schools, you still apply directly to Cornell, not through the SUNY system. Cornell has easier admissions because it offers a far greater range of studies than Harvard (and is much, much larger than Harvard). Harvard has more valedictorians apply each year than they have spots in the freshman class, so of course they are going to end up with the more selective admissions process.

Furthermore, with Harvard's new policies on Fin Aid, I would bet that this more than makes up for the relative admissions leniency that Cornell has. I can think of at least one high impact recruit who would have ended up elsewhere if he did not qualify for a full ride based on the new Fin Aid policy.

Does anyone know of a hockey player who wanted Harvard, but who ended up at Cornell because of admissions?

 

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I saw this article and thought that perhaps this might be a chance for Harvard to return the favor after Princeton snapped up Calof last year:

http://centraljuniorhockeyleague.ca/view/CJHL/news/news_26408

Having seen both of them play, I have to say that despite Hyman's awards I think Calof will be the better college player. Anyway, I just thought it would something of interest to Harvard fans. I know the admission cycle has passed, but we all know that late apps for athletes are a possibility (although admittedly not the norm) at the Ivies.

And there is precedent here. We both know that Chris Huxley ended up at Harvard after RPI's hockey coach was canned (Huxley had previously committed to RPI). Anytime a coach leaves, it puts the incoming recruits at risk. Although it doesn't happen as often in hockey, you see it alot in basketball and football.

Harvard would obviously welcome Hyman with open arms - just as Princeton did Calof!

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

And there is precedent here. We both know that Chris Huxley ended up at Harvard after RPI's hockey coach was canned (Huxley had previously committed to RPI). Anytime a coach leaves, it puts the incoming recruits at risk. Although it doesn't happen as often in hockey, you see it alot in basketball and football.

Harvard would obviously welcome Hyman with open arms - just as Princeton did Calof!

Chris Who?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

And there is precedent here. We both know that Chris Huxley ended up at Harvard after RPI's hockey coach was canned (Huxley had previously committed to RPI). Anytime a coach leaves, it puts the incoming recruits at risk. Although it doesn't happen as often in hockey, you see it alot in basketball and football.

Harvard would obviously welcome Hyman with open arms - just as Princeton did Calof!

Our fans just needed another reason to boo at the games.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Looks like, according to releases and the schedule thread, that our non-conference slate is @UMass, 2x @North Dakota and 2x @The Beanpot with 2 games to be scheduled. I like it. Some new teams in the mix (though I saw UND live here my freshman year but still...) and I'd be surprised if we added BU and/or BC to our non-conference slate just because they look jammed pack already. Based on last year, I wonder if we have returns with Northeastern and Merrimack. I wouldn't mind seeing the Huskies at the Bright. Just based on the number of road games already though, I would be somewhat surprised to see us @Merrimack. Any guesses on who our last two remaining non-conference games will be? Any preferences?

My preference- no ECAC non-conference games, unless it's an outdoor game against Cornell. And since Cornell doesn't seem to have too much room for that, I'm just going to stick to no non-conference conference games.

 

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Linell de-commits to Harvard afer being waitlisted at Harvard and is now going to BC on a full-ride.

I think this could be Donato's final straw. Calof, and now this? Donato clearly has lost his touch with admissions and now every recruit can question whether Donato's blessing means anything. In my opinion, this is a huge blow to Donato's credibility (both at home and with recruits)!

Linell was probably Harvard's best incoming forward and this is a big loss.

 

[sam12]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Very interesting...

Though I'm wondering what you mean by last straw?

I think Linnel could have been a nice addition to the Crimson, always hard to tell how much of an impact a player will have freshman year, especially coming out of Prep hockey, but there is no doubt he had potential to be a very good 4 year player for the Crimson.