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HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
- Thread starter ALONZO
- Start date
eaglehockeyrules
BC '84, HES '97
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
T-F-F... compare that to a student-athlete who played on BU's or BC's championship squads in '01, '08, '09 or '10 and see how Ted's numbers pale in comparison. www.hockeydb.com. Then again, you'd hear the argument that BU and BC (or any other school that is successful in College Hockey including Cornell) is "just a hockey farm"
I suppose Yale is just a hockey farm too (sarcasm).
T-F-F... compare that to a student-athlete who played on BU's or BC's championship squads in '01, '08, '09 or '10 and see how Ted's numbers pale in comparison. www.hockeydb.com. Then again, you'd hear the argument that BU and BC (or any other school that is successful in College Hockey including Cornell) is "just a hockey farm"
I suppose Yale is just a hockey farm too (sarcasm).Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
1. How is today any different than '02, '04, and '06 when H had teams that won ECAC titles? This argument is decades old.
2. Check the average ages of the H and Cornell* teams this year. Those 0 24 and 25 year olds in Ithaca are really the reason H, their 24 year old captain, and 24 year old Canadian junior Dan Moriarty, couldn't compete this year? Really? Harvard doesn't even have any 18 and 19 year olds (though I realize some players were 19 at points during the season)!
Can we all finally agree to give it a rest with the whole Cornell stocks its roster with old Canadians and gains an unfair advantage line? The average birth year of Cornell and Harvard this year was almost identical. Harvard's oldest player was born February 1987. Cornell's August of '87. Harvard's youngest: September '91, Cornell's: March '92. Harvard had 9 Canadians, 2 Europeans. Cornell: 16 and 1.
I'm a Cornell alum and I'm as happy as the next Cornellian to see Harvard suffer (though to be fair I much preferred when the two schools were battling for championships each year). But don't complain about things that just aren't true. Harvard's lousy season had nothing to do with the fact they skated a bunch of teenagers (they didn't) and Cornell skated a bunch of 24 and 25 year old Canadians (they didn't).
I don't know what it is about the Canadian myth with Harvard fans either. I sat in the Harvard section during the 2008 Beanpot final. There were a couple Harvard alums in front of me openly whining about how BC was the better team "because of all the Canadians." They didn't know what to say when I showed them the program showing that Harvard not only had Canadians on their roster (the horror!) but had more Canadians than the Eagles did...
*- I know you weren't singling out Cornell alone above but I've heard this so many times with respect to Cornell I felt compelled to respond to its mention specifically. For all I know, Union and Yale skate 30 year Soviets and that's why they're so good lately.
1. How is today any different than '02, '04, and '06 when H had teams that won ECAC titles? This argument is decades old.
2. Check the average ages of the H and Cornell* teams this year. Those 0 24 and 25 year olds in Ithaca are really the reason H, their 24 year old captain, and 24 year old Canadian junior Dan Moriarty, couldn't compete this year? Really? Harvard doesn't even have any 18 and 19 year olds (though I realize some players were 19 at points during the season)!
Can we all finally agree to give it a rest with the whole Cornell stocks its roster with old Canadians and gains an unfair advantage line? The average birth year of Cornell and Harvard this year was almost identical. Harvard's oldest player was born February 1987. Cornell's August of '87. Harvard's youngest: September '91, Cornell's: March '92. Harvard had 9 Canadians, 2 Europeans. Cornell: 16 and 1.
I'm a Cornell alum and I'm as happy as the next Cornellian to see Harvard suffer (though to be fair I much preferred when the two schools were battling for championships each year). But don't complain about things that just aren't true. Harvard's lousy season had nothing to do with the fact they skated a bunch of teenagers (they didn't) and Cornell skated a bunch of 24 and 25 year old Canadians (they didn't).
I don't know what it is about the Canadian myth with Harvard fans either. I sat in the Harvard section during the 2008 Beanpot final. There were a couple Harvard alums in front of me openly whining about how BC was the better team "because of all the Canadians." They didn't know what to say when I showed them the program showing that Harvard not only had Canadians on their roster (the horror!) but had more Canadians than the Eagles did...
*- I know you weren't singling out Cornell alone above but I've heard this so many times with respect to Cornell I felt compelled to respond to its mention specifically. For all I know, Union and Yale skate 30 year Soviets and that's why they're so good lately.
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Harvard probably had more Canadians this year that BC has had in the history of their program. If memory is correct, BC's first Canadian was goalie Greg Taylor from Alberta, who played in the mid-90's. They have had maybe 4 or 5 since then.
Harvard probably had more Canadians this year that BC has had in the history of their program. If memory is correct, BC's first Canadian was goalie Greg Taylor from Alberta, who played in the mid-90's. They have had maybe 4 or 5 since then.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
kenny hodge jr, windsor ontario
Cornell being loaded with Canadians is not a myth.
not a bad thing. no diferent than Maine and many other programs
I went to Hockeydb.com and looked up Cornell and did a random pick, clicked on one team
16 out of their 18 top scorers were from Canada. All over age
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512005.html
Even last year, they had 21 Canadians and outside the 2 devin twins, 17 of 18 leading scorers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512010.html
Similar to 2008/2009 when outside the Devin twins, who they grabbed from the BCHL, 16 out of 18 top scorers were from Canada
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512009.html
kenny hodge jr, windsor ontario
Cornell being loaded with Canadians is not a myth.
not a bad thing. no diferent than Maine and many other programs
I went to Hockeydb.com and looked up Cornell and did a random pick, clicked on one team
16 out of their 18 top scorers were from Canada. All over age
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512005.html
Even last year, they had 21 Canadians and outside the 2 devin twins, 17 of 18 leading scorers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512010.html
Similar to 2008/2009 when outside the Devin twins, who they grabbed from the BCHL, 16 out of 18 top scorers were from Canada
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0005512009.html
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Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Donatos numbers per game were as good as anyone in the years he played. Clearly his 800 game, 300 point+ nhl carear and the millions he made doing it bodes well for his play, vs many who lit it up in college and picked up pucks for the next 20 years.
T-F-F... compare that to a student-athlete who played on BU's or BC's championship squads in '01, '08, '09 or '10 and see how Ted's numbers pale in comparison. www.hockeydb.com. Then again, you'd hear the argument that BU and BC (or any other school that is successful in College Hockey including Cornell) is "just a hockey farm"
Donatos numbers per game were as good as anyone in the years he played. Clearly his 800 game, 300 point+ nhl carear and the millions he made doing it bodes well for his play, vs many who lit it up in college and picked up pucks for the next 20 years.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Not true. The Devin twins were recruited and committed out of Catholic Memorial, and went to Nanaimo based on a CU coaching recommendation. They knew that if they went to the USHL they likely wouldn't end up on the same team.
Cornell had a preference for Canadian players in the past (I believe Schafer at one point felt like he was getting more mature players vs. getting kids right out of prep school, this was before the USHL really took off). This appears to be changing.
Look at CU's roster this year: 15 Canadians, 9 Americans, 1 European. Looking at Heisenberg's 2011 and beyond: 9 Americans, 4 Canadians (one playing US prep hockey).
Not true. The Devin twins were recruited and committed out of Catholic Memorial, and went to Nanaimo based on a CU coaching recommendation. They knew that if they went to the USHL they likely wouldn't end up on the same team.
Cornell had a preference for Canadian players in the past (I believe Schafer at one point felt like he was getting more mature players vs. getting kids right out of prep school, this was before the USHL really took off). This appears to be changing.
Look at CU's roster this year: 15 Canadians, 9 Americans, 1 European. Looking at Heisenberg's 2011 and beyond: 9 Americans, 4 Canadians (one playing US prep hockey).
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
So Harvard can't compete because they have half as many Canadians on the team? The myth isn't that Cornell has Canadians on its roster. No one will fight you on that. It's that there is somehow an intrinsic advantage gained by having Canadians on the roster. Usually the argument is that the Canadians are several years older than the Americans. And that's your implication above: that Cornell had an advantage because their Canadians are older and therefore theoretically more physically mature than the American babes who skate for the Crimson. The numbers simply disagree with your implication.
So Harvard can't compete because they have half as many Canadians on the team? The myth isn't that Cornell has Canadians on its roster. No one will fight you on that. It's that there is somehow an intrinsic advantage gained by having Canadians on the roster. Usually the argument is that the Canadians are several years older than the Americans. And that's your implication above: that Cornell had an advantage because their Canadians are older and therefore theoretically more physically mature than the American babes who skate for the Crimson. The numbers simply disagree with your implication.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Cornell has one real advantage and it's difficult to know the implications without each school opening up the books on the players. Cornell has a lower AI threshold and thus, can recruit and accept kids that Harvard can't because athletes must fall within one standard deviation of the non-athletic student body population - Cornell's non-student AI is lower than Harvard's.
How this has translated is impossible to know, but again, in theory, Cornell can recruit kids that Harvard can't.
Cornell has one real advantage and it's difficult to know the implications without each school opening up the books on the players. Cornell has a lower AI threshold and thus, can recruit and accept kids that Harvard can't because athletes must fall within one standard deviation of the non-athletic student body population - Cornell's non-student AI is lower than Harvard's.
How this has translated is impossible to know, but again, in theory, Cornell can recruit kids that Harvard can't.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Agreed with a major caveat: the financial aid policies at H, Y, and P provide an advantage in recruiting kids who have financial need and have to choose between Cornell, with loans, and H/Y/P with no debt. It's no coincidence that since their new all-grant aid policies, Princeton and Yale have both won ECAC titles. Due to the size of the institution and endowment, it's an area where Cornell simply can't compete. On a tangentially related note, the Cornell women's team had a player forced to miss the last six weeks of the season last year because of problems paying tuition.
Agreed with a major caveat: the financial aid policies at H, Y, and P provide an advantage in recruiting kids who have financial need and have to choose between Cornell, with loans, and H/Y/P with no debt. It's no coincidence that since their new all-grant aid policies, Princeton and Yale have both won ECAC titles. Due to the size of the institution and endowment, it's an area where Cornell simply can't compete. On a tangentially related note, the Cornell women's team had a player forced to miss the last six weeks of the season last year because of problems paying tuition.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
If Yale can be #1 and Harvard can't, how do you justify this "Cornell advantage" that Elis seem to have no problem with?
Also, you're assuming that academic standards for athletes are so high at Harvard that players that would otherwise be recruited by H are not getting in. I seriously doubt that there's such a big performance gap that the kid who got a 730 instead of an 800 on his/her SATs is soooo much better of an athlete.
Let's face it, Harvard doesn't care about hockey as much and doesn't have a strong support system. Yale, Cornell and Dartmouth have good programs - not dumber and better athlete as you've suggested - so any recruitment or performance advantage is a result of the program and the people involved. If anything, finaid has disadvantaged CU in the past few years and we're only catching up now because of new policies towards athletes who are recruited by other Ivies.
Better luck next season.
If Yale can be #1 and Harvard can't, how do you justify this "Cornell advantage" that Elis seem to have no problem with?
Also, you're assuming that academic standards for athletes are so high at Harvard that players that would otherwise be recruited by H are not getting in. I seriously doubt that there's such a big performance gap that the kid who got a 730 instead of an 800 on his/her SATs is soooo much better of an athlete.
Let's face it, Harvard doesn't care about hockey as much and doesn't have a strong support system. Yale, Cornell and Dartmouth have good programs - not dumber and better athlete as you've suggested - so any recruitment or performance advantage is a result of the program and the people involved. If anything, finaid has disadvantaged CU in the past few years and we're only catching up now because of new policies towards athletes who are recruited by other Ivies.
Better luck next season.
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Just because you can recruit from a bigger pasture is irrelevant if you pick the wrong horses or can't get the horses to play well together. Success is contingent upon many more things than just the size of your recruiting pool.
Also, let's look at the likely freshman of the year candidate, Andrew Calof. The only reason he is at Princeton is that he got dinged by Harvard admissions.
As far as the support system, you may or may not be right. College hockey is generally cyclical and all the teams you mention have suffered through tough times, even though right now they are on the upswing. Next year, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Yale could all drop, and Harvard could move up. Does that suddenly mean that Harvard has a strong support system?
Just because you can recruit from a bigger pasture is irrelevant if you pick the wrong horses or can't get the horses to play well together. Success is contingent upon many more things than just the size of your recruiting pool.
Also, let's look at the likely freshman of the year candidate, Andrew Calof. The only reason he is at Princeton is that he got dinged by Harvard admissions.
As far as the support system, you may or may not be right. College hockey is generally cyclical and all the teams you mention have suffered through tough times, even though right now they are on the upswing. Next year, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Yale could all drop, and Harvard could move up. Does that suddenly mean that Harvard has a strong support system?
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Less than 24 hours to get your picks into the ECAC Pick The Playoffs Contest. Need to be in by 4:30 on Friday. Lots of people MIA.
95virago
allnightwong
apple2k
BigRedBrouhaha
bothman
Brett Gobe
Brian Sullivan
cnor79
cudmud
Dutchfan
hockeyplayer1015
jmhusker
johnk
justlookin'
Maine-iac
number 16
NYHockeyguy
Onion Man
Puckie14
redrocker
REDRocket
Rhamilton
Rhett
Rjm7272
rockandrock44
RPIHFH
rpihockeyfan13
rvd5star69
slu fan
StayPuftMMcu
TchrBill
Union93
uniondutch21
UnionPuckLove
UnionTDX04
Wholin1
bcarlisle
unhpuckfan2001
Less than 24 hours to get your picks into the ECAC Pick The Playoffs Contest. Need to be in by 4:30 on Friday. Lots of people MIA.
95virago
allnightwong
apple2k
BigRedBrouhaha
bothman
Brett Gobe
Brian Sullivan
cnor79
cudmud
Dutchfan
hockeyplayer1015
jmhusker
johnk
justlookin'
Maine-iac
number 16
NYHockeyguy
Onion Man
Puckie14
redrocker
REDRocket
Rhamilton
Rhett
Rjm7272
rockandrock44
RPIHFH
rpihockeyfan13
rvd5star69
slu fan
StayPuftMMcu
TchrBill
Union93
uniondutch21
UnionPuckLove
UnionTDX04
Wholin1
bcarlisle
unhpuckfan2001
Last edited:
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Less than 12 hours to get your picks into the ECAC Pick The Playoffs before the puck drops in game 1. Stragglers are:
95virago
BigRedBrouhaha
bothman
Brett Gobe
Brian Sullivan
cnor79
Dutchfan
hockeyplayer1015
jmhusker
johnk
Maine-iac
number 16
NYHockeyguy
Onion Man
Puckie14
redrocker
REDRocket
Rhamilton
rockandrock44
RPIHFH
rvd5star69
StayPuftMMcu
TchrBill
Union93
uniondutch21
UnionPuckLove
UnionTDX04
bcarlisle
unhpuckfan2001
Less than 12 hours to get your picks into the ECAC Pick The Playoffs before the puck drops in game 1. Stragglers are:
95virago
BigRedBrouhaha
bothman
Brett Gobe
Brian Sullivan
cnor79
Dutchfan
hockeyplayer1015
jmhusker
johnk
Maine-iac
number 16
NYHockeyguy
Onion Man
Puckie14
redrocker
REDRocket
Rhamilton
rockandrock44
RPIHFH
rvd5star69
StayPuftMMcu
TchrBill
Union93
uniondutch21
UnionPuckLove
UnionTDX04
bcarlisle
unhpuckfan2001
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Colin Blackwell with a hatrick in the Super 8 semis.
http://www.boston.com/sports/schools/hockey/articles/2011/03/17/st_johns_prep_schools_weymouth/
Colin Blackwell with a hatrick in the Super 8 semis.
http://www.boston.com/sports/schools/hockey/articles/2011/03/17/st_johns_prep_schools_weymouth/
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alslammerz
Harvard Hockey Broadcaster '09-'12
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Today's Award Winners:
Iron Man (Off-Ice Training): Ryan Grimshaw
Ralph "Cooney" Weiland Award (Devotion to the Game): Michael Del Mauro
John Tudor '29 Memorial Cup (Most Valuable Player): Danny Biega
Donald Angier '22 Hockey Trophy (Most Improved Player): Brendan Rempel
George Percy '18 Award (Most Valuable Freshman): Dan Ford
The 2011-12 Alternate Captains: Daniel Moriarty and Alex Killorn. The 2011-12 Captain: Ryan Grimshaw
I promise a season recap at some point in the near future, as late in the game as it is for one. I apologize for that but I had some things crop up near the end of the season that I didn't deal with until the playoffs ended and the eventual end result was that I really haven't had the time to do it yet.
Today's Award Winners:
Iron Man (Off-Ice Training): Ryan Grimshaw
Ralph "Cooney" Weiland Award (Devotion to the Game): Michael Del Mauro
John Tudor '29 Memorial Cup (Most Valuable Player): Danny Biega
Donald Angier '22 Hockey Trophy (Most Improved Player): Brendan Rempel
George Percy '18 Award (Most Valuable Freshman): Dan Ford
The 2011-12 Alternate Captains: Daniel Moriarty and Alex Killorn. The 2011-12 Captain: Ryan Grimshaw
I promise a season recap at some point in the near future, as late in the game as it is for one. I apologize for that but I had some things crop up near the end of the season that I didn't deal with until the playoffs ended and the eventual end result was that I really haven't had the time to do it yet.
eaglehockeyrules
BC '84, HES '97
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
Sunday, 17APR2011: On the way home from church today (around 12:30ish) I was listening to WEEI 850AM; they reported that Claude Julien is going to be fired after the B's lose up in Montreal... they also stated that the B's management is seriously considering Ted Donato as the next coach. Rumors abound! Anyone get any hint of this on campus?
Let's just say, conjecture here lads, if (and it is a big "if" given Donato's lack of success at H he is actually selected) who would you like to see replace him at H?
Sunday, 17APR2011: On the way home from church today (around 12:30ish) I was listening to WEEI 850AM; they reported that Claude Julien is going to be fired after the B's lose up in Montreal... they also stated that the B's management is seriously considering Ted Donato as the next coach. Rumors abound! Anyone get any hint of this on campus?
Let's just say, conjecture here lads, if (and it is a big "if" given Donato's lack of success at H he is actually selected) who would you like to see replace him at H?
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning
I wonder if they'd try going after Nate Leaman, especially given he was once an assistant coach there.
I wonder if they'd try going after Nate Leaman, especially given he was once an assistant coach there.