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Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
And thus we learned the hard way that centralized "crazy care" (not my phrase, quoting Kep) is far more efficient and cost effective than the current mess alternative.
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We also learned that unfunded mandates don't work, and that's something that both parties have been guilty of.

Much of this goes back to the problem of a spineless Congress that to this day refuses to tell people that their fantasyland dreams of permanently low taxes without budget deficits (and concomitant cuts of basic services to the most needy) are impossible. Talk about voting to give people "free stuff" -- that has been the permanent condition of our government since the Reagan Fallacy, and Members still won't own up to it.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Kepler said:
We also learned that unfunded mandates don't work, and that's something that both parties have been guilty of.

Much of this goes back to the problem of a spineless Congress that to this day refuses to tell people that their fantasyland dreams of permanently low taxes without budget deficits (and concomitant cuts of basic services to the most needy) are impossible. Talk about voting to give people "free stuff" -- that has been the permanent condition of our government since the Reagan Fallacy, and Members still won't own up to it.
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Yeah, and isn't it funny how they convinced the American People that the perpetual visa card existed for themselves too but that crashed fast while the Government's version lumbers on and on.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
And it will continue to lumber until it is too painful to continue. I fear that point is beyond the point of no return.
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There's always a return from the edge; the question is always, how painful will it be?

I think that the economy grows fast enough that if we restore pre-Reagan tax rates on individuals and corporations, we'll start to winnow down the deficits, and if we fully fund the programs and priorities that originally built the great American middle class, we'll soon have erased the deficits entirely and then have time to start hewing down the debt.

We basically need to repeal the last 40 years of failed fiscal policy.

But doing that means waking up to some really terrible truths about those years and all the folks who lied to us (from both parties), and unifying the bottom 99%, and I don't think our social schisms are going to allow that just yet.

(Which is, after all, why those schisms are continually deliberately inflamed. "Divide and rule".)
 
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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
Will these moves* really make a difference?
When was the last time a criminal used a "mentally deficient" person's ID to purchase a weapon? And was that weapon used to commit a crime?

These "actions" sound wonderful and make for great sound bites, but will they make an iota of difference?
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Think I've said this before...but if there's a problem with a two part solution, fix em both. If you can't hold a job because you don't have a car to get you there and you don't have an alarm clock to wake you up...you don't worry about buying just one.

We have already seen a high correlation between states with more gun control and lower gun related death rates. Regarding the other solution, mental illness...conservatives better be ready to pay a lot of tax money for that one. And we know they like to do that.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

joecct said:
How will this stop Theo the Thug from obtaining an illegal gun?
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How criminals get guns

An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.
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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
Will these moves* really make a difference?
When was the last time a criminal used a "mentally deficient" person's ID to purchase a weapon? And was that weapon used to commit a crime?

These "actions" sound wonderful and make for great sound bites, but will they make an iota of difference?


*I won't question if they are an end-run around Congress or extra-Constitutional.
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So lets not do anything...brilliant plan!

And can we not let the mental health aspect of this cloud the actual issue. Not everyone who kills using a gun is mentally ill. (no matter how much the media likes to pretend they are) This new talking point about mental health is a convenient excuse to go after one group as an almost scapegoat for everyone else.
 
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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Handyman said:
So lets not do anything...brilliant plan!

And can we not let the mental health aspect of this cloud the actual issue. Not everyone who kills using a gun is mentally ill.
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It's part of the issue. I'd say the biggest part of the issue is irresponsible gun owners. "Found on counter," "got from under bed," etc etc. That infuriates me more than how a mentally ill person got a gun.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Brenthoven said:
It's part of the issue. I'd say the biggest part of the issue is irresponsible gun owners. "Found on counter," "got from under bed," etc etc. That infuriates me more than how a mentally ill person got a gun.
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Exactly. Notice though that isnt the pet issue...now it is always how we need to keep guns away from the crazies not educate the people who have guns so they dont do anything dangerous.

We need to fix all the holes, not just the one that is the most convenient.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Handyman said:
Exactly. Notice though that isnt the pet issue...now it is always how we need to keep guns away from the crazies not educate the people who have guns so they dont do anything dangerous.

We need to fix all the holes, not just the one that is the most convenient.
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Agreed. Respect the dam gun. Use all safety measures.* Enforce the laws we have in the books!

*If someone hands you a gun, say "got it" after s/he hands you it, and you check to make sure that gun is empty. If the owner empties the bullets in front of you, still check to see if it's empty once in your possession. Even something as simple as that prevents some deaths, I am sure. Lock up your friggin' guns. Take safety classes. All that.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Brenthoven said:
Agreed. Respect the dam gun. Use all safety measures.* Enforce the laws we have in the books!

*If someone hands you a gun, say "got it" after s/he hands you it, and you check to make sure that gun is empty. If the owner empties the bullets in front of you, still check to see if it's empty once in your possession. Even something as simple as that prevents some deaths, I am sure. Lock up your friggin' guns. Take safety classes. All that.
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1. All guns are ALWAYS loaded. Treat every gun as though it is loaded even if you know it isn't.
2. Do not point the gun at anything you are not willing to see destroyed.
3. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until your sights are on target and you have made the decision that you're going to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target AND what is behind it.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Handyman said:
So lets not do anything...brilliant plan!

And can we not let the mental health aspect of this cloud the actual issue. Not everyone who kills using a gun is mentally ill. (no matter how much the media likes to pretend they are) This new talking point about mental health is a convenient excuse to go after one group as an almost scapegoat for everyone else.
Click to expand...
I agree in part regarding the mental health aspect.

However, I notice Hill the Annointed One was on tv last night commenting on Obama's action, taking credit for it, and repeating the claim that 30,000 people die each year in this country as a result of "gun violence." But again, as has been pointed out here time and time again, two thirds of those are suicides. There are probably some mental health issues involved there.

If we assume at least some portion of the third of the deaths that involve one person shooting another also involve someone with mental illness, that is in fact a pretty sizable part of the gun death problem (maybe 70% plus?).
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Handyman said:
So lets not do anything...brilliant plan!

And can we not let the mental health aspect of this cloud the actual issue. Not everyone who kills using a gun is mentally ill. (no matter how much the media likes to pretend they are) This new talking point about mental health is a convenient excuse to go after one group as an almost scapegoat for everyone else.
Click to expand...

Correct. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed by perfectly sane individuals who acted deliberately and stupidly, often with malice aforethought. Such people should always be held accountable for any actions they commit while behind the trigger.

Brenthoven said:
It's part of the issue. I'd say the biggest part of the issue is irresponsible gun owners. "Found on counter," "got from under bed," etc etc. That infuriates me more than how a mentally ill person got a gun.
Click to expand...

This. Most people aren't living in a neighborhood that requires them to sleep with a loaded gun under the bed. Lock up your weapons when you aren't using them. That goes x1000 if you have kids in the house - and you should be held responsible if a minor shoots him/herself or someone else with a projectile weapon you left unsecured.

I remember years ago my dad was furious when he figured out I had been dicking around with his bow trigger release when he wasn't in the room. And that thing is useless without the bow itself.
 
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