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Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

SJHovey said:
If we assume at least some portion of the third of the deaths that involve one person shooting another also involve someone with mental illness, that is in fact a pretty sizable part of the gun death problem (maybe 70% plus?).
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Based on my experience, I would put it to you that the largest portion involves bad guys shooting innocent people or other bad guys, not mentally ill people shooting others.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

SteveP said:
Based on my experience, I would put it to you that the largest portion involves bad guys shooting innocent people or other bad guys, not mentally ill people shooting others.
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Sure, of the third that are actually one person shooting another, I don't doubt that. My point is that 2/3 are just someone shooting themselves, and I suspect that in many of those cases there is some form of mental issue going on, whether it's depression, etc...
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Brenthoven said:
Agreed. Respect the dam gun. Use all safety measures.* Enforce the laws we have in the books!

*If someone hands you a gun, say "got it" after s/he hands you it, and you check to make sure that gun is empty. If the owner empties the bullets in front of you, still check to see if it's empty once in your possession. Even something as simple as that prevents some deaths, I am sure. Lock up your friggin' guns. Take safety classes. All that.
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This is 1000% the biggest battle we face with guns... Always has been, always will be... That whole "Common Sense ain't so common" thing gets in the way a lot here in 'Murica...
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

geezer said:
Is this true?
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I'm not sure this is necessarily true.

I suspect that if you check statistics on a per capita number of deaths involving firearms, you would see less populated, more rural states like Alaska, Montana, the Dakotas, etc..., lead the way, and they also have less restrictive gun control laws, generally. But you have one shooting in North Dakota where 5 people get killed, that state can move up the charts from the mid-30's to the top 5 simply because there aren't any people in the state. You also have to be careful on those numbers as to whether they include accidental gun deaths. There are certainly many more of those in states where more hunting occurs.

The states that consistently receive high marks for strict gun control are places like California, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Illinois, Pennsylvania, etc... But their gun control laws certainly didn't prevent Sandy Hook, San Bernardino or similar high profile shootings from occurring within their borders.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Handyman said:
So lets not do anything...brilliant plan!
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Quite frankly, what was done yesterday was a whole lot of nothing, save for emoting and crocodile tears.

If there were awesome stats for "loophole" sales (no FFL dealer involved transactions) leading to deaths they'd have been rolled out yesterday.
If sales to the mentally ill were the issue, those stats would've been rolled out also.

California, Oregon, and Colorado have some of the toughest state level gun laws out there, already including the Exec Order provisions of yesterday. Last three mass shootings in US?
San Bernadino, Umpqua Comm College, Colorado Springs.

Better? (I guess ... ) Worse?
Most horrific mass shooting of late?

Paris.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Brenthoven said:
Agreed. Respect the dam gun. Use all safety measures.* Enforce the laws we have in the books!

*If someone hands you a gun, say "got it" after s/he hands you it, and you check to make sure that gun is empty. If the owner empties the bullets in front of you, still check to see if it's empty once in your possession. Even something as simple as that prevents some deaths, I am sure. Lock up your friggin' guns. Take safety classes. All that.
Click to expand...

I **** friends off because they'll clear a weapon in front of me, hand it to me, and I can't stop myself from clearing it.
"But I cleared it for you."
"Yup. You cleared it. Now it's my responsibility so I'm clearing it."
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

I would start a new liberal program that gives every man, and woman when they turn 18 their own gun. Then I'd have a mandatory gun safety class in our public schools at every grade level. Mental stability would be irrelevant. Bad guys always have guns so now the good guys would all have them too.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
California, Oregon, and Colorado have some of the toughest state level gun laws out there, already including the Exec Order provisions of yesterday. Last three mass shootings in US?
San Bernadino, Umpqua Comm College, Colorado Springs.
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There aren't any states that have tough gun laws, syrup is harder that water but I wouldn't call it hard.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

ScoobyDoo said:
I would start a new liberal program that gives every man, and woman when they turn 18 their own gun. Then I'd have a mandatory gun safety class in our public schools at every grade level. Mental stability would be irrelevant. Bad guys always have guns so now the good guys would all have them too.
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The way to get gun control is for every black male in the US to buy the most powerful gun he can brandish around in his state. The NRA would love it (they're not your pals, conservatives, they're just another greedy business lobby). The people who push for a "well armed society" now would magically see the light.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Kepler said:
The way to get gun control is for every male in the US to buy the most powerful gun he can brandish around in his state. The NRA would love it (they're not your pals, conservatives, they're just another greedy business lobby). The people who push for a "well armed society" now would magically see the light.
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Isn't this what we've already been trying for the last 200 years? (minus the race-baiting qualifier; obviously the white dudes are pretty thoroughly armed also)
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Kepler said:
The way to get gun control is for every black male in the US to buy the most powerful gun he can brandish around in his state. The NRA would love it (they're not your pals, conservatives, they're just another greedy business lobby). The people who push for a "well armed society" now would magically see the light.
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I'm quite sure brandishing a weapon is illegal in every state. (Look up the definition of brandishing; I had to for my ND Class I concealed carry license.)

Now, some (actually very few) states allow open carry. I think that's what you really propose. Go for it there. Otherwise, what you propose (brandishing) is quite illegal today.
 
The Sicatoka said:
I'm quite sure brandishing a weapon is illegal in every state. (Look up the definition of brandishing; I had to for my ND Class I concealed carry license.)

Now, some (actually very few) states allow open carry. I think that's what you really propose. Go for it there. Otherwise, what you propose (brandishing) is quite illegal today.
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And by very few, you mean most. 32 (including Texas) allow it unrestricted, and 13 more allow it with permits. 5 do not.
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

unofan said:
And by very few, you mean most. 32 (including Texas) allow it unrestricted, and 13 more allow it with permits. 5 do not.
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I stand corrected, but you must also.
I only count 25 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

Many will cite you for disorderly conduct depending on where you are if you open carry. And then many have additional criteria for "in vehicle" which just clouds and complicates the matter.

That's why I carry concealed (legally). (I don't stay up on open carry for that very reason.)

But to Kep's, and my, point: Don't brandish, open carry legally. I have no issue with that.
 
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The Sicatoka said:
I stand corrected, but you must also.
I only count 25 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

Many will cite you for disorderly conduct depending on where you are if you open carry. And then many have additional criteria for "in vehicle" which just clouds and complicates the matter.

That's why I carry concealed (legally). (I don't stay up on open carry for that very reason.)

But to Kep's, and my, point: Don't brandish, open carry legally. I have no issue with that.
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I pulled mine from here (then adding Texas to the open carry column), and while I view the WSJ with heavy skepticism, I generally trust it to be right on things like gun rights:

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/map-where-is-open-carry-legal-1715/
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

geezer said:
Is this true?
Click to expand...

SJHovey said:
I'm not sure this is necessarily true.

I suspect that if you check statistics on a per capita number of deaths involving firearms, you would see less populated, more rural states like Alaska, Montana, the Dakotas, etc..., lead the way, and they also have less restrictive gun control laws, generally. But you have one shooting in North Dakota where 5 people get killed, that state can move up the charts from the mid-30's to the top 5 simply because there aren't any people in the state. You also have to be careful on those numbers as to whether they include accidental gun deaths. There are certainly many more of those in states where more hunting occurs.

The states that consistently receive high marks for strict gun control are places like California, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Illinois, Pennsylvania, etc... But their gun control laws certainly didn't prevent Sandy Hook, San Bernardino or similar high profile shootings from occurring within their borders.
Click to expand...

Yes there is a relationship between gun control and gun deaths...based on state laws. Here's one that shows that stronger gun laws are correlated with fewer gun deaths.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat..._by_state_tougher_laws_mean_fewer_deaths.html

Here's another that shows that gun ownership is correlated with more gun deaths. Chart is at the bottom of the article.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/gun-owners-study-one-in-three
 
Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

The Sicatoka said:
But to Kep's, and my, point: Don't brandish, open carry legally. I have no issue with that.
Click to expand...

Well that's why I said "...in his state."

BTW, I didn't know "brandishing" had a specific legal definition. That's great!

To my point: it's all fun and games while the gun nuts are all pale faces, but it takes on a different... hue... when other colors get involved. TX is open carry, now. Let's have every Muslim in the state (that's 100k!) legally open carry, with turban and hijab, naturally. I'm sure the Usual Suspects would treat them as freedom-loving Americans.
 
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Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Some wag said on the ATF web site:

"So, say I am a Federal Agency and sell a bunch of guns to Mexican cartels, do I needs a federal firearms license?"
 
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