Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Just a reminder that this was the 1947 UN border:

<img src="https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fdc19b14f3c2b417ceed627dce4f60fe.webp" height=300>

Also, I wonder what they intend to do with the thousands of Israeli settlers inside the West Bank they seeded through there strategically?

Let's just be honest. This is a progression:

<img src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oAt4Nmo6rWg/US4Jnfur0EI/AAAAAAAAAB0/92VwEFIFAu0/s1600/map2.jpg" height=300>

Remind you of anything?

<img src="https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Maps_AmericanIndianLossOfLand_1850-1990.jpg" height=300>

That's how it's done. Embarrassing in a media-saturated world, init?

 

[aparch]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

****. Wow.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Per wapo-

“ Following the unveiling of President Trump’s long-awaited peace plan Tuesday, Israeli officials said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s cabinet would vote to annex the strategic Jordan valley and all Israeli settlements in the West Bank.”

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Was this what Kushner was doing for 3 years?

To think Hunter Biden was the one "given a job he wasn't qualified for because of who his family was"

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Per wapo-

“ Following the unveiling of President Trump’s long-awaited peace plan Tuesday, Israeli officials said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s cabinet would vote to annex the strategic Jordan valley and all Israeli settlements in the West Bank.”

Netanyayhoo was officially indicted in Israel today while he was in DC to meet with Dump. Two corrupt peas in a pod.

 

[rufus]

Netanyayhoo was officially indicted in Israel today while he was in DC to meet with Dump. Two corrupt peas in a pod.

But.....but.....fighting corruption is all Donnie cares about.

At least, that's what they tell me.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I guess this means the Trump administration is going to freeze all US aid to Israel. <a href="https://t.co/nJwoJ7MkyG">https://t.co/nJwoJ7MkyG</a></p>— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) <a href="https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1222528154213982208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I guess this means the Trump administration is going to freeze all US aid to Israel. <a href="https://t.co/nJwoJ7MkyG">https://t.co/nJwoJ7MkyG</a></p>— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) <a href="https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1222528154213982208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Took me a second. My god Kruse is a treasure.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Just a reminder that this was the 1947 UN border:

<img src="https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fdc19b14f3c2b417ceed627dce4f60fe.webp" height=300>

Also, I wonder what they intend to do with the thousands of Israeli settlers inside the West Bank they seeded through there strategically?

Let's just be honest. This is a progression:

<img src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oAt4Nmo6rWg/US4Jnfur0EI/AAAAAAAAAB0/92VwEFIFAu0/s1600/map2.jpg" height=300>

Remind you of anything?

<img src="https://www.palestineportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Maps_AmericanIndianLossOfLand_1850-1990.jpg" height=300>

That's how it's done. Embarrassing in a media-saturated world, init?

So, if the Palestineans had taken the first deal offered they probably would have been better off? Or was the deal always going to shrink like that over time anyway?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

It was never going to shrink, unless you believe war was inevitable. (they lost land every time they fought in a war with Israel and lost) The Liberals hate this but the Palestinian State doesnt exist because of the Palestinians, not the Israelis. They walked away from the deal in 1948, they walked away from the deal in the 1990s (which would have given them more land than this Trump deal will I do believe) and they will walk away from the next one as well. Even if they fully support the idea of peace, they risk alienation from the other Mid East Actors if they make this deal. Of course said actors have been responsible for more Palestinian deaths than the Israelis...but that is besides the point.

Oh and the first map (the map of settlements before Israel) is bunk. Most of "Palestine" was uninhabited or was tribal. (not just Palestinians) To pretend they had any sort of plurality of land there is hilarious in its wrongness. The fact that Kepler is comparing it to the Indians is so disingenuous it is almost academic fraud. We slaughtered the Indians colonial style. (i.e. genocide) and took their land for spite. Most of the land taken from Palestine was in War. (6 Days War, War For Independence, Yom Kippur War...etc.) Not even close to the same thing...but that doesnt fit the mantra of the Left these days.

Trump's deal sucks. Clinton's was much better and way more fair to the Palestinians. Despite trixie's beliefs I fully, 100% support a Palestinian State for about 2 dozen reason BEYOND the fact that they have the right to a homeland as much as anyone does. I think they go about it the wrong way every time though, and their constant negotiating in bad faith causes them a lot of their problems. Until Bibi is in prison though (which we all hope is very soon) I doubt they will have a government on the Israeli side that trusts them because the Cons in Israel got their power playing up the "no land for peace" crap. Those terrorists should be shoved out of office.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

So, if the Palestineans had taken the first deal offered they probably would have been better off? Or was the deal always going to shrink like that over time anyway?

Arafat was a putz for rejecting the deal Barak offered, but that has always been Israel's goal. Especially when their conservatives are in power.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

It was never going to shrink, unless you believe war was inevitable. (they lost land every time they fought in a war with Israel and lost) The Liberals hate this but the Palestinian State doesnt exist because of the Palestinians, not the Israelis. They walked away from the deal in 1948, they walked away from the deal in the 1990s (which would have given them more land than this Trump deal will I do believe) and they will walk away from the next one as well. Even if they fully support the idea of peace, they risk alienation from the other Mid East Actors if they make this deal. Of course said actors have been responsible for more Palestinian deaths than the Israelis...but that is besides the point.

Oh and the first map (the map of settlements before Israel) is bunk. Most of "Palestine" was uninhabited or was tribal. (not just Palestinians) To pretend they had any sort of plurality of land there is hilarious in its wrongness. The fact that Kepler is comparing it to the Indians is so disingenuous it is almost academic fraud. We slaughtered the Indians colonial style. (i.e. genocide) Most of the land taken from Palestine was in War. (6 Days War, War For Independence, Yom Kippur War...etc.) Not even close to the same thing...but that doesnt fit the mantra of the Left these days.

Trump's deal sucks. Clinton's was much better and way more fair to the Palestinians.

Your flywheel's spinning. I am not the cardboard enemy you are flailing at.

From what I understand, which is no doubt insufficiently enlightened for you, most of the theft of Palestinian property was done right at the beginning, the clean, modern way: with the stroke of a pen. After that it's just a garden variety Old Testament fight to the genocidal death. Two peoples, one cup inevitably leads to the same end. Ask the Kurds or the Uighurs.

As for the distinction between "genocide" and "war," as if the latter were somehow less horrific and cynical, no, just no. We did have Indian Wars, and they were fought with the same ideology with which winners have always vanquished losers. If you read American history textbooks from 80 years ago you'll hear all the same folderol about the legal justification and self defense of our Westward Expansion.

No doubt 25 years after the last Palestinian is dead the Israelis will have an Agonizing Reappraisal of their history and weepily apologize. When it's moot. They're just like us or the British Empire or the Romans or the Assyrians. Might makes right.

Everybody always thinks we're calling Israel monsters. We're just calling them... people.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Arafat was a putz for rejecting the deal Barak offered, but that has always been Israel's goal. Especially when their conservatives are in power.

Part of why the Cons are in power though is BECAUSE of Arafat's walking away. There had been pretty strong Liberal Governments in Israel for a while (even after the assassination of Rabin...by friggin Likud loving Cons like my uncle who didnt even hide it) and the Peace Process was popular. Arafat kept playing the same game though (get what he wants, walk away, throw bombs, play victim) and by the time the final deal fell through people in Israel grew tired of the charade and Likud flipped the script. Hell even Bibi was more tolerant back then...but he knew that the more hardcore he got the stronger his hold on power would be. Everyone thinks Trump wants to be Hitler...no he wants to be Bibi.

The only hope for Peace is the Liberals to take power again. That will only happen if Bibi goes to jail I am afraid.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Arafat was a putz for rejecting the deal Barak offered, but that has always been Israel's goal. Especially when their conservatives are in power.

The conservatives want every last Arab dead. That's the only way they'll ever feel safe. They're Republicans who see every (I dunno... slightly even more Semitic? Talk about the narcissism of small differences, both sides' women braid their leg hair.) face as a suicide bomber.

The liberals seems to just want to be left alone. But who wins elections?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Part of why the Cons are in power though is BECAUSE of Arafat's walking away

I'll buy that. The Pals played their hand and they're going to get wiped out for it. I'm not sure what else Israel was supposed to do in that situation. But let's please call it what it is. Two dogs in a kennel, one bowl of food.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

The only hope for Peace is the Liberals to take power again. That will only happen if Bibi goes to jail I am afraid.

Will that do it? I worry that Bibi is actually a net drag on Likud. Once his corrupt as-s goes to prison some younger even more zealous, perhaps even Orthodox leader will grab the reins and finish the job. Bibi for all his faults is still Senator Bedfellow. But out there somewhere is Likud Trump who has no inhibitions.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Oh man...lots of BS to scoop up here. This is a lot of verbal diarrhea even for you SUNY-Hipster

Your flywheel's spinning. I am not the cardboard enemy you are flailing at.

Yes you are. Everything you say backs it up every time you say it. You arent the "Enlightened Voice in the Wilderness" you think you are

From what I understand, which is no doubt insufficiently enlightened for you, most of the theft of Palestinian property was done right at the beginning, the clean, modern way: with the stroke of a pen. After that it's just a garden variety Old Testament fight to the genocidal death. Two peoples, one cup inevitably leads to the same end. Ask the Kurds or the Uighurs.

"Stolen". Proof you dont understand anything about it. But Lets accept your term for now and say that Israel somehow STOLE the land. The land didnt belong to the Palestinians any more than it belonged to any of the other tribes that lived there. But if it was stolen it was stolen by the British (what wasnt) not the Israelies. But still stolen so cool. Then post WWII the British and the US decided to divide up the territory known as Palestine (which wasnt exactly rich in major settlements) into two States. (we can leave out the ridiculousness of any colonial deal like this for another argument) That would be the map you posted for 1948. How is it Israel's problem the Palestinians said no?

As for the distinction between "genocide" and "war," as if the latter were somehow less horrific and cynical, no, just no. We did have Indian Wars, and they were fought with the same ideology with which winners have always vanquished losers. If you read American history textbooks from 80 years ago you'll hear all the same folderol about the legal justification and self defense of our Westward Expansion.

And again the "Great Western Know-It-All" conflates something to an awful thing America did to show he is both sympathetic and knowledgeable, only he does it in a Don King like way. First of all the "Indian Wars" are a joke. That was our military (and the French and British with a hint of Spanish before us) finding reasons to kill Indians with impunity. I know it is cute to pretend that just because we call it a "War" that means it is the same thing, but that would be as wrong as saying the Korean War wasnt a war like they tried to do. What we did to the Natives is closer to the War on Drugs than the War in Vietnam. Countries attacking countries /= what we did to the Natives. Israel was attacked by sovereign nations, not by 12 Palestinians on Horseback defending their tribe from Manifest Destiny.

Now if you think all land lost in war should be returned that is a fair argument. I disagree but is is fair. Not sure how you plan to return all of the lands ever won in any battle, but I would like to read that breakdown. And remember, you have to include the entire Western World into that thesis...that is a lot of repatriating

(both genocide and war are bad, me making a distinction was to debunk your stupid Native argument not to argue either was better. Needless/senseless death is bad no matter who it is)

No doubt 25 years after the last Palestinian is dead the Israelis will have an Agonizing Reappraisal of their history and weepily apologize. When it's moot. They're just like us or the British Empire or the Romans or the Assyrians. Might makes right.

Israel doesnt want Palestinians dead anymore than America wants every Muslim dead. Or to put an even better point on it...anymore than Palestinians want every Jew dead.

Everybody always thinks we're calling Israel monsters. We're just calling them... people.

You are. You just dont like to admit it like you dont like to admit that Liberals are racist, misogynist, homophobic and stupid. Thankfully we are just less of all those things than the rest of the country

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

You just dont like to admit it like you dont like to admit that Liberals are racist, misogynist and dumb.

Of course I'll admit that. Socialists hate liberals.

Srsly, if you thought I was a "liberal" you have not been paying attention. dx is a liberal. He's the rational one. I'm the Judas goat trying to entice him and even poor, dumb center-right Rover to try Mr. Marx' Wild Ride. The first hit is free!

I am in no way against Israel or pro-Palestine. I don't care. They are nation states. Ergo, they are fungibles. Insofar as they are religious proxies then they are granfalloons.

Talk to me about the Poors and the Workers and now you have my attention. If the Poors in Israel had any brains the Jews and Muzzies among them would rise up and slaughter both their leaderships in their sleep. Make Terrorism Productive Again!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Fair enough

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror 9: Winter Is Here.

Fair enough

So I can count on your vote?