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Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

Kepler said:
Seriously?

This, to me, is on par with saying "I treat my gout with leeches." It's time travel.

Is this stuff really alive out there someplace? I know the hemlines change in different places at different rates -- the phobes haven't even made it to 1975 in the civilized world yet -- but "don't marry a Catholic" seems out of place to me for any spot in the US after, say, the Garfield assassination.
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1985. I was called down to my grandmother's house on the Cape. mr les was told there was a nice chair in the back yard, under the trees, where she was sure he would be comfortable. I was regaled with what my life would be like if I went forward with it. mum les didn't really care who it was. She just didn't want me to be married. She would tell me she didn't want me to be like my Auntie (who stayed with her mum but was secretly partnered with her roommate) and I needed to move out but then have full blown hysterics any time I tried.
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

leswp1 said:
1985. I was called down to my grandmother's house on the Cape. mr les was told there was a nice chair in the back yard, under the trees, where she was sure he would be comfortable. I was regaled with what my life would be like if I went forward with it. mum les didn't really care who it was. She just didn't want me to be married. She would tell me she didn't want me to be like my Auntie (who stayed with her mum but was secretly partnered with her roommate) and I needed to move out but then have full blown hysterics any time I tried.
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Was it "your children will go to hell" or "you'll be forced take part in Papist devil worship" or what? I'm fascinated.

Driving across country in 2003, Dr. Mrs. and I picked up a radio show outside of Salt Lake where the topic was friendships in elementary school. The extremely nice speaker (also a local teacher) said that while it was fine to associate with non-Mormons, becoming friends with them was a waste of time because "trees cannot root if their seed is sprinkled on rocks." At first Dr. Mrs. & I assumed we were misunderstanding and the lesson was about older kids having romantic relations which would threaten marriage outside LDS but no, the guy was talking about when you're 8 or 9 who you should be playing catch with. He talked like Mr. Rogers. It was one of the most chilling things I ever heard.
 
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Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

Kepler said:
Was it "your children will go to hell" or "you'll be forced take part in Papist devil worship" or what? I'm fascinated.

Driving across country in 2003, Dr. Mrs. and I picked up a radio show outside of Salt Lake where the topic was friendships in elementary school. The extremely nice speaker (also a local teacher) said that while it was fine to associate with non-Mormons, becoming friends with them was a waste of time because "trees cannot root if their seed is sprinkled on rocks." At first Dr. Mrs. & I assumed we were misunderstanding and the lesson was about older kids having romantic relations which would threaten marriage outside LDS but no, the guy was talking about when you're 8 or 9 who you should be playing catch with. He talked like Mr. Rogers. It was one of the most chilling things I ever heard.
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I would have all sorts of problems because I would be excluded from everything, not being a Catholic. (I wasn 't churched at all). The Priest refused me communion and also gave me a lecture about how the Pope was on his knees praying for people like me so...
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

leswp1 said:
I would have all sorts of problems because I would be excluded from everything, not being a Catholic. (I wasn 't churched at all). The Priest refused me communion and also gave me a lecture about how the Pope was on his knees praying for people like me so...
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My dad did RCIA before he married mom in '83, and I've always wondered if he was shamed into it, or did it on his own accord. He still has some rebel-ish views. I'll never forget when I said something about the concept of predestination, and he announced, "Oh, I've always believed in predestination." :eek: He was raised Methodist. Explains a lot. :D

Regardless, his parents never had any ill will towards his conversion. TBH, it's only in the past 5 years that they've started attending church regularly again. Awareness of approaching death, go figure.
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

leswp1 said:
I would have all sorts of problems because I would be excluded from everything, not being a Catholic. (I wasn 't churched at all). The Priest refused me communion and also gave me a lecture about how the Pope was on his knees praying for people like me so...
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Oh, so this was the Catholics telling you not to marry into a Catholic family? I have never heard of that. I have only heard of people begging their relatives not to marry outside their particular flavor cult. But never "we don't want you!" That's even weirder. In all honesty it doesn't sound Catholic at all, either. The Church really gets off on assimilating non-Catholics. It's kinda the Jesus Borg.
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

Kep, I think you need to remember we're talking about your favorite place in the whole wide world, Eastern Mass. (the South being your second favorite, of course :D). When it comes to arch-conservative Catholics, that region has it made (unless they are rich/powerful/named Kennedy, in which case "whatevah").
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

Kepler said:
Oh, so this was the Catholics telling you not to marry into a Catholic family? I have never heard of that. I have only heard of people begging their relatives not to marry outside their particular flavor cult. But never "we don't want you!" That's even weirder. In all honesty it doesn't sound Catholic at all, either. The Church really gets off on assimilating non-Catholics. It's kinda the Jesus Borg.
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No, it was being told they would exclude me if I didn't convert (my family) and the Priest telling me I was going to hell because I wouldn't (he later had a brain tumor so I always wondered if it was God's revenge or that what was causing him to be so wanky. I had been considering converting but he cured me of that but quick. I was pretty sure the Pope wasn't on his knees praying for heretics like me all day and that God could figure out I was His child without being dipped in only a Catholic font of water.

My dad's side was Lutheran- helped build the church they now worship in (as in physically build, my gf made the cross behind the altar). Mum's side was Baptist- as in walk in font when she was 14 or so. The thought of me being a Catholic sent my whole family into spasms. Both my Dad and Mum were raised by very churchy parents. High involvement. Both never lost the teen rebellion regarding religion. They went Unitarian- horrifying both families and then stopped going all together. mr les family was also very involved altho- my FIL still is. mr les got ****ed at GGod when his mum died really young. He comes to the heretic church every week and we go to the Catholic Xmas eve service with his dad so he can get a real cookie.
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

leswp1 said:
No, it was being told they would exclude me if I didn't convert (my family) and the Priest telling me I was going to hell because I wouldn't
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OK, I'm tracking now.

Yeah, that kind of idiocy was still prevalent among the clergy when I was growing up. What do you call the guy who graduates last in seminar? "Father." The profession doesn't exactly draw the caliber of people who go into say the arts or engineering. Nice folks for the most part, but not the warmest coals in the thurible.

Bring back Latin. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way.
 
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FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Kep, I think you need to remember we're talking about your favorite place in the whole wide world, Eastern Mass. (the South being your second favorite, of course :D). When it comes to arch-conservative Catholics, that region has it made (unless they are rich/powerful/named Kennedy, in which case "whatevah").
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Convenient how an annulment is so easy for some.......
 
Kepler said:
OK, I'm tracking now.

Yeah, that kind of idiocy was still prevalent among the clergy when I was growing up. What do you call the guy who graduates last in seminar? "Father." The profession doesn't exactly draw the caliber of people who go into say the arts or engineering. Nice folks for the most part, but not the warmest coals in the thurible.

Bring back Latin. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way.
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There are some brilliant intellects, some career climbers, some weathervane principled, some creeps, some dim bulbs, and some plodders among the Catholic religious. In short, typical humanity.

I would love to see a return to the 1965 Liturgy with the Leonine Prayers restored. But at least I have a choice between the 1962 (Latin),1969 (vernacular) and the Anglican Ordnariate (very high Church - in English but with the smells and the bells).
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

joecct said:
There are some brilliant intellects,
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Not a lot of brilliant intellects since 1300, unfortunately. There was a time when the greatest minds in the West went in for theology, but when law, philosophy, science, and medicine came on the scene the Church hemorrhaged its talent and turned away all but the Mediocre of both mind and spirit.

What the Church has really had the last 750 years is a vast bureaucracy. There have been organizational geniuses, yes, like the supply chain managers at a big corporation. But the geniuses of creative thought have long since all gone elsewhere. This is one reason why the Church still looks, feels, and thinks like a Medieval fossil. It is ossified.

joecct said:
I would love to see a return to the 1965 Liturgy with the Leonine Prayers restored. But at least I have a choice between the 1962 (Latin),1969 (vernacular) and the Anglican Ordnariate (very high Church - in English but with the smells and the bells).
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Too much of a novelty fad for me. Sarum Rite or bust.

This is how you run a railroad.
 
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Kepler said:
Not a lot of brilliant intellects since 1300, unfortunately. There was a time when the greatest minds in the West went in for theology, but when law, philosophy, science, and medicine came on the scene the Church hemorrhaged its talent and turned away all but the Mediocre of both mind and spirit.

What the Church has really had the last 750 years is a vast bureaucracy. There have been organizational geniuses, yes, like the supply chain managers at a big corporation. But the geniuses of creative thought have long since all gone elsewhere. This is one reason why the Church still looks, feels, and thinks like a Medieval fossil. It is ossified.



Too much of a novelty fad for me. Sarum Rite or bust.

This is how you run a railroad.
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You can still celebrate a Mass under the Sarum Rite. If it was approved at the time of the Council of Trent, it is still good to go.

We have a looonnngggg series of precedents... :)
 
Re: Geneology Thread: Where did we come from?

I had a genealogical paper accepted for publication. :)


BTW, why don't editors like Oxford commas?
 
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