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Future Frozen Four sites
- Thread starter hockeymom of 2
- Start date
Would the cost for the time, equipment and manpower to put in ice be worth it for three games over two days?
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Not my call, just stating facts that ice events will be able to be there if the venue chooses to bid...seeing that this is in Wisconsin, I'm sure someone involved will think its worth it...might plan on having some events in March/April the same year as an successful bid to make it worth it for a longer stretch...
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Yeah, you could easily parlay that into future Frozen Fours, regionals, and tournaments if it's successful in Milwaukee.
The equipment is a one-time purchase with some ongoing maintenance. Target Center does it. I can't imagine why Milwaukee couldn't.
Yeah, you could easily parlay that into future Frozen Fours, regionals, and tournaments if it's successful in Milwaukee.
The equipment is a one-time purchase with some ongoing maintenance. Target Center does it. I can't imagine why Milwaukee couldn't.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
That's a great comparison with the Frozen Faceoff. A little earlier in the year, but also successful while causing an NBA team to be away from home for a long weekend.
That's a great comparison with the Frozen Faceoff. A little earlier in the year, but also successful while causing an NBA team to be away from home for a long weekend.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
What's a high-end ice system cost these days? $2-$6 million?
I helped spec one out at my old company for TCF bank stadium when they were looking at doing outdoor games as well as a local rink whose system was starting to fail and was obsolete. But those were quite a while ago now and weren't tier one systems.
What's a high-end ice system cost these days? $2-$6 million?
I helped spec one out at my old company for TCF bank stadium when they were looking at doing outdoor games as well as a local rink whose system was starting to fail and was obsolete. But those were quite a while ago now and weren't tier one systems.
brassbonanza
Super Serial
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Eh, a team being out of town for ~5-6 days isn't at all uncommon in either the NBA or NHL. You still get the same number of home games so it's not an enormous deal. Yes, they don't get the same number of home games down the stretch, but you do get more home games earlier to build up a lead in the standings.
Eh, a team being out of town for ~5-6 days isn't at all uncommon in either the NBA or NHL. You still get the same number of home games so it's not an enormous deal. Yes, they don't get the same number of home games down the stretch, but you do get more home games earlier to build up a lead in the standings.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Target Center is a dump. The NCHC needs to find a better venue... like Pepsi Center or get the Excel Energy Center. There's a reason nobody else plays hockey there outside of the Frozen Faceoff.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Now had the Hawks been on the playoff bubble going into the last weekend... well, there would have some complaining, to be sure. Maybe I would have been one of the complainers.
But such complaints really wouldn't have had merit. By definition, roughly half the teams are going to finish the regular season on the road. And at least in the West, going on the road is usually going to mean more than a 1 game trip.
Another factor: If you're willing to put the basketball floor on top of the ice, you can convert back and forth in a matter of hours. This is what's done at the Schott; and I assume what's done at buildings where the NHL & NBA share.
Maybe that's a tough sell if there's no permanent hockey tenant. But suppose you put in ice for about a month. You could stage some high school games, maybe have multiple performances of an ice show, and so on. Doing it that way you'd have a better chance of good ice by the time the FF rolls around.
OK, the NBA team isn't going to be thrilled with any of that. But if the arena is sinking millions into an ice-making system, I've got to believe they'd at least consider these ideas.
Yup. You're talking a 2-3 game road trip. Perfectly normal. In the lead-up to this year's FF, the Hawks took a trip that included games in LA & Anaheim. That fits your prototype rather exactly. The trip didn't go well, but the earlier results were good enough to lock down the top spot in the conference.
Now had the Hawks been on the playoff bubble going into the last weekend... well, there would have some complaining, to be sure. Maybe I would have been one of the complainers.
But such complaints really wouldn't have had merit. By definition, roughly half the teams are going to finish the regular season on the road. And at least in the West, going on the road is usually going to mean more than a 1 game trip.Another factor: If you're willing to put the basketball floor on top of the ice, you can convert back and forth in a matter of hours. This is what's done at the Schott; and I assume what's done at buildings where the NHL & NBA share.
Maybe that's a tough sell if there's no permanent hockey tenant. But suppose you put in ice for about a month. You could stage some high school games, maybe have multiple performances of an ice show, and so on. Doing it that way you'd have a better chance of good ice by the time the FF rolls around.
OK, the NBA team isn't going to be thrilled with any of that. But if the arena is sinking millions into an ice-making system, I've got to believe they'd at least consider these ideas.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Lose the word "dump" and I'm with you. Hockey sightlines are a problem at Target Center. With the B1G & the WCHA tournaments moving back to campus sites, the NCHC has a golden opportunity to move the its show to The X. Much, much better hockey building. Assuming they're not bound by contractual obligations at the current site, the NCHC would be crazy not grab the opportunity.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
The NCAA is nothing but an extension of the ultra liberal university system in this country which cannot accept any other viewpoints. They twist the true context and make it appear as something disgusting. However not as disgusting as your location(use of capital letters only) Nick. There are many who hold strong moral values who find such innuendoes vile and there is far more discrimination against them and their views by those who claim to be tolerant. Nick, your true colors shine through the veil.
The NCAA is nothing but an extension of the ultra liberal university system in this country which cannot accept any other viewpoints. They twist the true context and make it appear as something disgusting. However not as disgusting as your location(use of capital letters only) Nick. There are many who hold strong moral values who find such innuendoes vile and there is far more discrimination against them and their views by those who claim to be tolerant. Nick, your true colors shine through the veil.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Yes, I agree with your point that it's additional revenue, though it's not clear to me how much additional revenue is involved. It's three games, but I'd guess the revenue for the Thursday games looks more like one game. Additionally, for the revenue from the three games, you tie up the venue for several days. You need to melt and re-freeze the ice twice (if you want to put your logos back on the playing surface), and it'd be difficult to schedule anything meaningful on Friday, even if it's permitted by the NCAA agreement. You're tying up your venue for close to a week for those three games. It must be worthwhile, or venues wouldn't continue to submit bids. I just don't know how much. Concessions are hurt by beer sales, but probably get somewhat of a bump because of the captive audience on Thursday. It's not like, say, the HE tournament for the TD Garden; the prep for that is no different than for a regular Bruins game.
And if it means trading a home game in October for a home game in March, I'd guess that most NHL people would prefer March.
But I was thinking mainly of the criticality of that point in the season. Two years ago, the Bruins were on a road trip when the FF was in Boston. They tanked, and dropped out of the playoffs. I was waiting for someone to blame it on the FF. To do so publicly would have made them look whiny and stupid, but I have no idea what the Bruins said and thought in private. Apparently, it didn't affect their willingness to submit another bid. And to be honest I am encouraged; the previous Boston FF got some bad reviews regarding cooperation from the Garden. The last one apparently went very well.
Yes, I agree with your point that it's additional revenue, though it's not clear to me how much additional revenue is involved. It's three games, but I'd guess the revenue for the Thursday games looks more like one game. Additionally, for the revenue from the three games, you tie up the venue for several days. You need to melt and re-freeze the ice twice (if you want to put your logos back on the playing surface), and it'd be difficult to schedule anything meaningful on Friday, even if it's permitted by the NCAA agreement. You're tying up your venue for close to a week for those three games. It must be worthwhile, or venues wouldn't continue to submit bids. I just don't know how much. Concessions are hurt by beer sales, but probably get somewhat of a bump because of the captive audience on Thursday. It's not like, say, the HE tournament for the TD Garden; the prep for that is no different than for a regular Bruins game.
And if it means trading a home game in October for a home game in March, I'd guess that most NHL people would prefer March.
But I was thinking mainly of the criticality of that point in the season. Two years ago, the Bruins were on a road trip when the FF was in Boston. They tanked, and dropped out of the playoffs. I was waiting for someone to blame it on the FF. To do so publicly would have made them look whiny and stupid, but I have no idea what the Bruins said and thought in private. Apparently, it didn't affect their willingness to submit another bid. And to be honest I am encouraged; the previous Boston FF got some bad reviews regarding cooperation from the Garden. The last one apparently went very well.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
The ice doesn't get completely melted.
I had a conversation once with the ice manager for Ritter Arena at RIT when they hosted the D3 women's championship the last year RIT women were D3. It was quite interesting.
They receive the vinyl logos from the NCAA. All they do is melt the area where the logos are going to go. And even then, they don't melt entirely to the cement. They actually place the logos on top of the remaining ice.
Then, they flood those areas again followed by running the Zamboni over the entire surface many, many times to make sure everything is evened out.
Granted, it takes a while, but they don't melt the entire ice surface.
To reverse the process is even simpler. Melt again, rip off the logos exposing the original logos, flood, and run Zamboni lots of times.
However, like someone else pointed out, half the teams have to be on the road the last weekend. It's simple math.
So, you simply make the FF year the year you have to be on the road the final weekend.
theprofromdover
The Original Dope Detector
Crimson Faced
New member
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
I wasn't thrilled about Buffalo being a future site until we ate at Kentucky Greg's in Buffalo on our way home from Chicago. I plan to eat every meal there.
I wasn't thrilled about Buffalo being a future site until we ate at Kentucky Greg's in Buffalo on our way home from Chicago. I plan to eat every meal there.
brassbonanza
Super Serial
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
I don't doubt that there's excellent food up in Buffalo, but what else is there?
I don't doubt that there's excellent food up in Buffalo, but what else is there?
SteveF
* * * * *
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
fun fact: intolerance of intolerance is actually quite tolerant.
fun fact: intolerance of intolerance is actually quite tolerant.
Re: Future Frozen Four sites
Thanks for the education. Didn't know you could selectively melt areas.
And of course if your team sucks, you're probably better off if they're on a roadie to Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver.
Thanks for the education. Didn't know you could selectively melt areas.
However, like someone else pointed out, half the teams have to be on the road the last weekend. It's simple math.
So, you simply make the FF year the year you have to be on the road the final weekend.
And of course if your team sucks, you're probably better off if they're on a roadie to Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver.