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Frozen Four 2023: Three Blue Bloods and and Upstart

I think an appropriate collection should be at least 15 appearances or 5 titles which would be this list as posted. However, if it had to be both then Wisconsin is out. They have had great success in winning the title but they have not appeared often.

Appearances: [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 1, cellspacing: 1"]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston College[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston University[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]North Dakota[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Denver[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Harvard[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan State[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maine[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Titles: [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 1, cellspacing: 1"]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Denver[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]North Dakota[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wisconsin[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston College[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston University[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lake Superior State[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan State[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan Tech[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota Duluth[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Given a lower criteria level Michigan State may be the next in line so it appears the drop off is significant past the top 6 or 7.

Should recent titles weigh more heavily? A lot of people validly question whether Indiana can still be considered a basketball blueblood; they still compete at a high level but haven't won a championship in a long, long time. Michigan hasn't won a title in 26 years and has only 2 in the last 60. They're the hockey program of poodle skirts and a drug free Elvis. It's an impressive history, but it's just that...history.
 
Should recent titles weigh more heavily? A lot of people validly question whether Indiana can still be considered a basketball blueblood; they still compete at a high level but haven't won a championship in a long, long time. Michigan hasn't won a title in 26 years and has only 2 in the last 60. They're the hockey program of poodle skirts and a drug free Elvis. It's an impressive history, but it's just that...history.

Winning a national championship in college hockey is so dang hard. So much has to go right beyond just being the best team. It’s a great honor for a program, no doubt, but I have always thought that using national championships as the primary factor in determining program strength is a little misguided.

There are some very good programs that have consistently been contenders over the last 10+ years, but haven’t won a title.
 
Should recent titles weigh more heavily? A lot of people validly question whether Indiana can still be considered a basketball blueblood; they still compete at a high level but haven't won a championship in a long, long time. Michigan hasn't won a title in 26 years and has only 2 in the last 60. They're the hockey program of poodle skirts and a drug free Elvis. It's an impressive history, but it's just that...history.

As much as it is tempting to exclude them for that, they still do make appearances in the Frozen 4 more often than most other schools. Winning it is not the only criteria for being a blue blood. Appearing often also is.
 
How is that hypocritical? Fans are acting like no Gopher fans respect QU, which is absurd, while at the same time acting like Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them.

Certainly isn’t all QU fans. Many I have seen posting here have been great. But some fans need to pick a lane. Hard to listen to someone who says people aren’t giving their team enough respect when in the next breath they act like our team doesn’t belong on the same rink as theirs.

Yes, some Gopher fans are being disrespectful of QU because of their schedule, completely acknowledge that. But they are a minority snd they aren’t also complaining about not being respected.

But thanks for the Twitter follow. Perhaps respond to me on Twitter instead?

Why does it matter if he responds on Twitter? So the rest of the insufferable Gopher fans can come to your defense?
 
Should recent titles weigh more heavily? A lot of people validly question whether Indiana can still be considered a basketball blueblood; they still compete at a high level but haven't won a championship in a long, long time. Michigan hasn't won a title in 26 years and has only 2 in the last 60. They're the hockey program of poodle skirts and a drug free Elvis. It's an impressive history, but it's just that...history.

Indiana basketball absolutely does not compete at the level Michigan hockey does. Aren't you an Ohio State fan? You'd think you would appreciate just how difficult it is to get to a FF let alone win it. Michigan has been to plenty of FFs since last title.
 
How is that hypocritical? Fans are acting like no Gopher fans respect QU, which is absurd, while at the same time acting like Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them.

But thanks for the Twitter follow.

I mean, wasn’t it 4for4 (or one of the other older posters from 15-20 years ago) that coined tArrogance for you guys on this forum?

I get that it’s twitter (which leans whiny in general, regardless of the subject or fanbase), but the amount of bellyaching and entitlement from Gopher fans there (including people who post here) in the last four weeks has reached new heights. All the saltiness and conspiracy theorizing over the regional seeding, the people who harangue biddco or Ciskie about whether they cheer for the Gophers this weekend, the obnoxious replies to most USCHO, CHN, or Hobey posts, etc.
 
How is that hypocritical? Fans are acting like no Gopher fans respect QU, which is absurd, while at the same time acting like Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them.

Certainly isn’t all QU fans. Many I have seen posting here have been great. But some fans need to pick a lane. Hard to listen to someone who says people aren’t giving their team enough respect when in the next breath they act like our team doesn’t belong on the same rink as theirs.

Yes, some Gopher fans are being disrespectful of QU because of their schedule, completely acknowledge that. But they are a minority snd they aren’t also complaining about not being respected.

But thanks for the Twitter follow. Perhaps respond to me on Twitter instead?

What Quinnipiac fans are saying this? I haven't seen anyone say this. We are all excited and nervous for tonight. Anyone who claims Minnesota "doesn't belong on the same ice" as Quinnipiac is just spouting nonsense and should be ignored.
 
I mean, wasn’t it 4for4 (or one of the other older posters from 15-20 years ago) that coined tArrogance for you guys on this forum?

I get that it’s twitter (which leans whiny in general, regardless of the subject or fanbase), but the amount of bellyaching and entitlement from Gopher fans there (including people who post here) in the last four weeks has reached new heights. All the saltiness and conspiracy theorizing over the regional seeding, the people who harangue biddco or Ciskie about whether they cheer for the Gophers this weekend, the obnoxious replies to most USCHO, CHN, or Hobey posts, etc.

Dude, we have a huge hockey fan base. There are idiots in every fan base. We certainly have a lot because the fan base is so large. Especially when the Gophers are good and all the casual fans jump on the bandwagon. I know some Gopher fans kid about arrogance, myself included, but if you met me or others at a game and we talked seriously, I think you’d find that MOST die hard Gopher fans are knowledgable and respectful.

End of the day, it’s just a game.
 
What Quinnipiac fans are saying this? I haven't seen anyone say this. We are all excited and nervous for tonight. Anyone who claims Minnesota "doesn't belong on the same ice" as Quinnipiac is just spouting nonsense and should be ignored.

Just some people I have interacted with on Twitter, not here. Which is why I said it on Twitter, and not here.
 
I mean, wasn’t it 4for4 (or one of the other older posters from 15-20 years ago) that coined tArrogance for you guys on this forum?

I get that it’s twitter (which leans whiny in general, regardless of the subject or fanbase), but the amount of bellyaching and entitlement from Gopher fans there (including people who post here) in the last four weeks has reached new heights. All the saltiness and conspiracy theorizing over the regional seeding, the people who harangue biddco or Ciskie about whether they cheer for the Gophers this weekend, the obnoxious replies to most USCHO, CHN, or Hobey posts, etc.

And BTW - No one cares who the heck Bruce Ciskie cheers for. If you think any actual Gopher Hockey fan and not just some casual hockey rando cares about that, then joke is on you my friend.
 
Indiana basketball absolutely does not compete at the level Michigan hockey does. Aren't you an Ohio State fan? You'd think you would appreciate just how difficult it is to get to a FF let alone win it. Michigan has been to plenty of FFs since last title.

As a Hoosier basketball fan, I agree. They haven’t made a Final Four since 2002. They haven’t made it past the Sweet 16 since the same year. Michigan hockey >>>> Indiana basketball in the past couple decades. Indiana is absolutely not a blue blood anymore in basketball; we’re has-beens.
 
As a Hoosier basketball fan, I agree. They haven’t made a Final Four since 2002. They haven’t made it past the Sweet 16 since the same year. Michigan hockey >>>> Indiana basketball in the past couple decades. Indiana is absolutely not a blue blood anymore in basketball; we’re has-beens.
Aren't there like 300 D1 basketball teams compared to 60 D1 hockey teams? So it's not earth breaking news that it's much harder to stay on or near the top in hockey than it is in BB? Then again, if each year you only need to recruit three or four studs in BB...
 
How is that hypocritical? Fans are acting like no Gopher fans respect QU, which is absurd, while at the same time acting like Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them.

Certainly isn’t all QU fans. Many I have seen posting here have been great. But some fans need to pick a lane. Hard to listen to someone who says people aren’t giving their team enough respect when in the next breath they act like our team doesn’t belong on the same rink as theirs.
Generally I think you've been really even handed about your analysis; however, I'm trying to find anything in this entire thread that would suggest ANY QU fan believes that Minnesota doesn't belong on the same rink? Perhaps a bit of hyperbole on your part? Or anyone that suggested that Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them? More likely that PERETS will have to be perfect given the offensive firepower that that the Gophers have.
Close will have to be solid, and he has proven all year that he can do that.
ps. Motzko wold make you think his team is going up a combination of Gretzky's Oliers, Orr's Bruins and Bossy's Islanders. He can pump another team's tires with the best of them!

Loking forward to a fantastic game.
 
Aren't there like 300 D1 basketball teams compared to 60 D1 hockey teams? So it's not earth breaking news that it's much harder to stay on or near the top in hockey than it is in BB? Then again, if each year you only need to recruit three or four studs in BB...

For sure. I think there’s 360 D1 basketball teams. But, like you said, all it takes is one or two stars to carry a basketball team. Indiana won two Big Ten titles in the mid-2010s with Tom Crean as their coach, but never advanced past the Sweet 16 in the tournament that mattered, including a Sweet 16 loss to ‘Cuse as the #1 seed. They’re second-tier at best now, behind Duke, UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, etc.
 
Why does it matter if he responds on Twitter? So the rest of the insufferable Gopher fans can come to your defense?

Because I am the one he is responding to and he may want me to see his response? I’m not here much. Or perhaps the intent wasn’t for me to see it. And you’d know insufferable.
 
Last edited:
Generally I think you've been really even handed about your analysis; however, I'm trying to find anything in this entire thread that would suggest ANY QU fan believes that Minnesota doesn't belong on the same rink? Perhaps a bit of hyperbole on your part? Or anyone that suggested that Justen Close will need to play the perfect game to beat them? More likely that PERETS will have to be perfect given the offensive firepower that that the Gophers have.
Close will have to be solid, and he has proven all year that he can do that.
ps. Motzko wold make you think his team is going up a combination of Gretzky's Oliers, Orr's Bruins and Bossy's Islanders. He can pump another team's tires with the best of them!

Loking forward to a fantastic game.

Definitely hyperbole on my part, and probably not fair to characterize your fan base based on a few bad comments I saw. Fair criticism.

It’s Motzko’s job to make sure the team is prepared for the challenge, and while neither of these teams are the 1980’s Oilers, they are both great teams. Honestly, I don’t know that much separates either of these teams, which is why they switched between #1 and #2 much of the year.

As a Gopher fan, this game terrifies me because I think your team plays a style we have historically struggled against and you play that system better than any team I have seen play that system. And, you guys are extremely underrated offensively. With all that, I’d be talking you guys up to my players as well.

It’s not that the Gophers aren’t a great team. They might be the best Gopher team of my lifetime. But you guys aren’t a great matchup for us and hockey is all about matchups.
 
Last edited:
I think an appropriate collection should be at least 15 appearances or 5 titles which would be this list as posted. However, if it had to be both then Wisconsin is out. They have had great success in winning the title but they have not appeared often.

Appearances: [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 1, cellspacing: 1"]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston College[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston University[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]North Dakota[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Denver[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Harvard[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan State[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maine[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Wisconsin 11

Titles: [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 1, cellspacing: 1"]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Denver[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]North Dakota[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wisconsin[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston College[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Boston University[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lake Superior State[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan State[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Michigan Tech[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minnesota Duluth[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Given a lower criteria level Michigan State may be the next in line so it appears the drop off is significant past the top 6 or 7.


Michigan St is definitely a blue blood, historically. I'd also include New Hampshire among the historical blue bloods, but while MSU may have been on the hot seat and being considered for being booted out of the club, the creation of the B1G conference gives them the opportunity to get back in as a fully accepted member of the club. But so far they haven't taken advantage of that opportunity so could still lose their status. New Hampshire I believe has been booted from the club. If they got to a Frozen Four going forward, people would be shocked and it would probably be because of the same factors that get non-blue blood programs into the Frozen Four, an older veteran lineup that's played together for several years finally getting into a good groove at the right time of the year, and I'd say the same thing for Maine and possibly Harvard? LSSU for sure has lost their blue blood status, if they even had that status, and in retrospect, probably never was really a true blue blood. I argue below that UMD is not yet a blue blood, more of a one hit wonder, and it's LSSU that I think about when judging UMD. LSSU didn't match that short term success going forward. UMD seems that they probably will, but they could also go the way LSSU did. Michigan Tech is no longer a Blue blood and most likely never really was.

Wisconsin is definitely a blue blood. Some forget that Wisconsin didn't even have a hockey program until the 1960s and have won 6 titles with 3 different coaches in 4 different decades I believe? Totally not a one hit wonder, and were able to steal away a great coach from a non-blue blood program, which basically only a blue blood could do.




I would not consider UMD a blue blood historically, but I believe that their back to back titles in 2018 and 2019 puts them in the waiting room. Now all they need to do is not disappear into irrelevance like LSSU did. If they do, then they shouldn't be called into the blue blood clubhouse, but absolutely deserve a ton of respect for what they have accomplished. But if they end up back in the Frozen Four in the next 2-3 years, it could earn them my vote for entry into the blue blood clubhouse.

I mean, there are a ton of bands who are considered one hit wonders despite their having a legitimate 2nd hit. What keeps them relegated as one hit wonders is they never continued to produce hits after that 2nd hit, and the 2nd hit is usually not what they are remembered for. UMD, among non-super diehard fans, will always be remembered for their back to back titles that followed a runner up finish. Almost forgotten is their out of nowhere Championship in 2011. So they will always be remembered and respected for their amazing run from 2017-2019, that is their hit that they will be remembered for by basically all hockey fans, and die hards will also remember their other hit, the title in 2011. But like those one hit wonders with a legit 2nd hit, the difference between them and bands/artists who never became known as a one hit wonder, they have to prove it wasn't an exception to the general rule. Tons of music critics were very ready and willing to accept Terrance Trent D'Arby wasn't a one hit wonder. He actually had THREE legit hit songs, but they all were on that first album of his, and despite seeming to have a ton of talent and potential, he never was able to get another hit. That album was an amazing album and helps rank him as one of the greatest one hit wonders ever, as his one hit was basically an entire album vs one song, so UMD may go down in history as one of the greatest one hit wonders ever, seeing as they made 3 straight Title games, vs just winning one single title, but at the same time, like Micheal Jackson, way before he went solo, he had hits as a part of the Jackson 5, so UMD had a 2 year Frozen Four run back in the 80s, that only super die hard fans remember which is another reason they totally deserve to be sitting in that waiting room waiting to see if their application for membership will be accepted or not. Some of the board members may have already come to believe that they deserve membership, but I believe others are just not quite fully convinced, and I'm among that latter group. I went to UMD, so my bias would love to claim them as a blue blood now, but my unbiased analysis dependent side still feels more is needed from UMD.
 
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