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Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

5 dead, nearly 30 wounded in an all too commonplace Chicago weekend. No claims of "stand your ground," just good old fashioned gang banging and recreational violence. From the White House, silence. From the reverands, crickets. From MSNBC and the rest of the MSM racists, "ignore." No energizing the base here. No money or reputation to be made or enchanced here. No opportunity to condemn whitey here. No grandstanding race-baiting local congressmen wearing hoodies here. No "spontaneous" marches on city hall here. Just five more funerals for young people shot and killed by other young people. Move along. Nothing to see here.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-south-side-shooting-20120616,0,3096087.story
 
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Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Old Pio said:
5 dead, nearly 30 wounded in an all too commonplace Chicago weekend. No claims of "stand your ground," just good old fashioned gang banging and recreational violence. From the White House, silence. From the reverands, crickets. From MSNBC and the rest of the MSM racists, "ignore." No energizing the base here. No money or reputation to be made or enchanced here. No opportunity to condemn whitey here. No grandstanding race-baiting local congressmen wearing hoodies here. No "spontaneous" marches on city hall here. Just five more funerals for young people shot and killed by other young people. Move along. Nothing to see here.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-south-side-shooting-20120616,0,3096087.story
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Remember what Stalin said: "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

joecct said:
Remember what Stalin said: "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
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Of course he was speaking of the people he had killed or was planning to kill. Living in a totalitarian state makes things easier for the boys at the top.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

How many STG shootings vs. gang-bang shootings have taken place the past 12 months? OMG, it's MONDAY - put in on the FRONT PAGE!!! ;)
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Slap Shot said:
How many STG shootings vs. gang-bang shootings have taken place the past 12 months? OMG, it's MONDAY - put in on the FRONT PAGE!!! ;)
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I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the deaths of thousands of young people are not newsworthy? Not important? But the death of one black kid at the hands of a white guy IS newsworthy and important? If that's what you're saying, I submit your priorities are askew.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Old Pio said:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the deaths of thousands of young people are not newsworthy? Not important? But the death of one black kid at the hands of a white guy IS newsworthy and important? If that's what you're saying, I submit your priorities are askew.
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Really? You really think that's what I'm saying? While holding your knee in place go back and read it a second time, maybe a third if you must because that was not the point made. (consider the media's perspective if it helps, not yours or mine)
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Slap Shot said:
Really? You really think that's what I'm saying? While holding your knee in place go back and read it a second time, maybe a third if you must because that was not the point made. (consider the media's perspective if it helps, not yours or mine)
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Simmer down. I was just asking. Sometimes your brilliance is obscured.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I was just surprised you'd think that was my tack. I agree that black on black (or hell, youth on youth) crime should be at the forefront but sadly the media doesn't care. You're right we should demand more from our leaders, but sadly I think they listen to the drumroll and react instead of stepping to the mic first and speaking out. Same goes for the campaign - I don't care if Mitt did X in HS or Obama Y, which one can lead Congress in the right direction or at least do less damage. ;)
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Slap Shot said:
I was just surprised you'd think that was my tack. I agree that black on black (or hell, youth on youth) crime should be at the forefront but sadly the media doesn't care. You're right we should demand more from our leaders, but sadly I think they listen to the drumroll and react instead of stepping to the mic first and speaking out. Same goes for the campaign - I don't care if Mitt did X in HS or Obama Y, which one can lead Congress in the right direction or at least do less damage. ;)
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When a very prominent guy like Bill Cosby spoke out on some of the problems facing African Americans, suggesting that perhaps they should alter self destructive behaviors, he was roundly and bitterly criticized.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Update on recent case where a known killer went unprosecuted based on SYG (Miami Herald):

In March, in one of the more perverse applications of the infamous Stand Your Ground law that the NRA pushed through the Florida Legislature in 2005, a Miami-Dade circuit judge granted Garcia immunity from prosecution.

The ruling kept Garcia from going to jail on a second-degree murder charge. He might have been safer behind bars: The 26-year-old Miami man was gunned down Tuesday night, collateral damage in yet another Liberty City gang shoot out.

Back on Jan. 25, 2011, Garcia, brandishing a large knife, chased a fleeing car burglar down a Miami street and stabbed him to death. Garcia claimed Pedro Roteta had attempted to fend him off with a bag containing three stolen radios. Under Stand Your Ground, that was apparently enough.

Judge Beth Bloom wrote that she had “considered the fact that the defendant never called the police or 911 following the incident, and that he returned home and went back to sleep.” She knew that Garcia had initially lied to police about his involvement in the killing. She acknowledged that after the stabbing, Garcia had hidden the knife. And that he had later sold two of the car radios he found in the bag taken from the man bleeding to the death on the sidewalk.

Prosecutors had argued that Garcia, as he chased down Roteta, obviously wasn’t experiencing “a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm,” the traditional grounds for a self-defense claim.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Does anyone think the State will get a 2nd degree murder conviction?
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

5mn_Major said:
Update on recent case where a known killer went unprosecuted based on SYG (Miami Herald):

In March, in one of the more perverse applications of the infamous Stand Your Ground law that the NRA pushed through the Florida Legislature in 2005, a Miami-Dade circuit judge granted Garcia immunity from prosecution.

The ruling kept Garcia from going to jail on a second-degree murder charge. He might have been safer behind bars: The 26-year-old Miami man was gunned down Tuesday night, collateral damage in yet another Liberty City gang shoot out.

Back on Jan. 25, 2011, Garcia, brandishing a large knife, chased a fleeing car burglar down a Miami street and stabbed him to death. Garcia claimed Pedro Roteta had attempted to fend him off with a bag containing three stolen radios. Under Stand Your Ground, that was apparently enough.

Judge Beth Bloom wrote that she had “considered the fact that the defendant never called the police or 911 following the incident, and that he returned home and went back to sleep.” She knew that Garcia had initially lied to police about his involvement in the killing. She acknowledged that after the stabbing, Garcia had hidden the knife. And that he had later sold two of the car radios he found in the bag taken from the man bleeding to the death on the sidewalk.

Prosecutors had argued that Garcia, as he chased down Roteta, obviously wasn’t experiencing “a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm,” the traditional grounds for a self-defense claim.
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Thank you for the attribution. This couldn't have been a "news" story could it? With language like "perverse" and "infamous" in the first graph, it reads like an opinion piece or an editorial. So the next step in your editorial growrth will be to let us know whose opinion it is. Certainly no self respecting newspaper would use language like that in a straight news story. And if it did, then we'd know how to rate it, wouldn't we? And no self-respecting professional journalist reporting on the story would use "jail" instead of "prison" to describe where people convicted of second degree murder are sent.

I'll say this for you. You're a persistent cuss. Your constant referencing to individual cases where SYG may have been improperly applied and from which you want us to draw the conclusion that the streets of Florida are littered with the bodies of SYG "victims" strikes me as a bit like the moron hitting his head against the wall. When asked why he did it, he replied: "because it feels so good when I stop."

Based on the incomplete and entirely one sided description of what happened in this case, it surely does sound ridiculous to have let the guy get off on SYG or any other grounds related to self defense. I'd like to hear a little more about the case from someone who doesn't have such an obvious axe to grind. But that seems to be a continuing "Ethiopian in fuel supply" of your posts on this subject.

Under any circumstances, I won't be attending in Mr. Garcia's memorial service.
 
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Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Old Pio said:
I'll say this for you. You're a persistent cuss.
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Hmm...I'm the only one? ;)

Old Pio said:
I'd like to hear a little more about the case from someone who doesn't have such an obvious axe to grind. But that seems to be a continuing "Ethiopian in fuel supply" of your posts on this subject.
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I'm glad you asked...from the most accurate outlet in major media today:

Police: 'Stand ground' man shot dead in Miami
Fox News

...Last January, Garcia was in his apartment in Miami's Little Havana district when he saw Pedro Roteta stealing a stereo from his truck. Garcia grabbed a kitchen knife and chased after Roteta for about a block. When Garcia caught up to him, surveillance cameras caught Roteta swinging a bag containing the stereos at him. Authorities said Garcia fatally stabbed Roteta in the chest, picked up the bag of stereos and then went home and went to sleep. He then hid the knife and sold two of the stereos.

Arrested and charged with second-degree murder, Garcia claimed his actions were taken in self-defense as defined by Florida's "stand your ground" law. That law came to national prominence after neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman invoked it in the shooting death of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin.

The 2005 law broadly eliminates a person's duty to retreat under threat of death or serious injury, as long as the person isn't committing a crime and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

In March, a circuit judge ruled that Garcia acted within the law. The judge said Garcia could have been killed or seriously injured if Roteta had hit him in the head with the bag of stereos...
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Bob Gray said:
Nobody but 5mn, who probably expects the death penalty.
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We will never know if second degree is deserved or not...as big govt has changed the way justice is treated in FL. As a just society, we should just be thankful that Martin's killer was brought to trial at all.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

5mn_Major said:
We will never know if second degree is deserved or not...as big govt has changed the way justice is treated in FL. As a just society, we should just be thankful that Martin's killer was brought to trial at all.
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So we can't know if second degree is deserved or not, but you can sit in judgment of whether justice is served in Florida or not. Got it.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Bob Gray said:
So we can't know if second degree is deserved or not.
Click to expand...

...as I said...

...I love the 'sit in judgement' as you're not doing it here...

Bob Gray said:
but you can sit in judgment of whether justice is served in Florida or not. Got it.
Click to expand...

...pretty much. A known killer who isn't even brought to trial does result in poor justice. I thought that should be obvious.

Garcia grabbed a knife, chased a guy for a block, stabbed a guy to death, sold the stereo's, dumped the knife...and wasn't even brought to trial. You may be confident that the justice system worked for Garcia and the deceased...I'm not so sure.

American justice is a traditional concept that has been changed by a single piece of big govt legislation where special interests played a factor. If resulting verdicts change...we've got bad justice.

Question for you: if the GOP legislature makes murder legal and murderers are never prosecuted...is that good justice?
 
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