Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

[jmh]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

I didn't include everything ("and so on"), but we've run these numbers on the DU thread in the past and its come in well over $750,000.

Take medical insurance as just one example. If a player contracted a disease such as meningitis up in Canada, would the family be covered for the player's illness or would the team just cut the player. If the player contracted the disease on an NCAA campus, they'd be covered.

The point of this is not to say the NCAA is "better" than the CHL but to show parents that their kids are getting a huge financial windfall (did I mention TAX FREE!!!) that aren't available to 99% of the population.

I understand that by "and so on" you meant to indicate that there were other things, but I found it confusing that you wouldn't include other big-ticket items. I'm curious what else you have considered when looking at this previously that more than doubles the things you listed; I understand that medical insurance is one factor, but you did list it.

 

[jnacc]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

The recruiting war between the NCAA and CHL is being fought primarily over elite level talent, where by these players have a legitimate chance of playing pro hockey at a high enough level to earn an above average income. The OHL scholarship package is merely an insurance policy that such players would use in the event that their career aspirations of playing pro hockey does not pan out.

Paul Kelly can give the parents of Fowler a pamphlet extolling the virtuous of a NCAA education and pointing out to its multi million dollar value only to have Fowler's parents counter with an already received pamphlet from the OHL that states it will compensate any and all potential monetary loss for forgoing the chance to play NCAA hockey while adding other bonuses.

Heck, the OHL will give the Fowlers and the Saads anything they ask for because they know that in all likelihood these two players are only 2 to 3 years away from signing multimillion dollar NHL contracts that will void any agreement they had with the OHL....and they will happily do it.

Where the NCAA has the advantage is with the players that are not seen as sure fire NHL prospects but only if it offers them full scholarships. Jeff Hicks may elicit our sympathies over players such as Matt Smith who only has a one year education package worth $4500 and pays $5700 in full tuition.

What many of you are missing here is the fact that, as stated by Hicks, Smith was a third string goalie who didn't get a lick of ice time in the O is still receiving an education package. That in its self is amazing, especially when you ask yourself what would Smith have received had he been a 3rd string goalie in the USHL?!? Would he even have been approached for a try out as a walk on player who would get ZERO financial support? Probably not.

The CHL is playing a very smart game here. Offer the elite players the sun, the moon and the stars, knowing full well they will not have to pay for the vast majority of them while offering the mediocre players the chance of at least earning a partial scholarship

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Why are you using the intellectually dishonest method of comparing Smith's time in MJ to him being the third string goalie in the USHL?

Why are we comparing MJ to the USHL? They're not comparable leagues at all.

 

[jnacc]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Why are you using the intellectually dishonest method of comparing Smith's time in MJ to him being the third string goalie in the USHL?

Why are we comparing MJ to the USHL? They're not comparable leagues at all.

Had Smith not played in the OHL, where would he have played? The OPJHL? The NAHL? The USHL? The point of the matter is that were it not for the OHL, he would have no scholarship money period as he would not have been recruited as a scholarship player by a D-1 team.

 

[UMDSimmerdown]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Using the Cam Fowler example of the $50,000 per year scholarship to Notre Dame mentioned in the article.

College Hockey Inc would be well advised to come up with a pamphlet for prospects that would list the "true value" of a four year scholarship to Notre Dame, BC, Michigan, DU, Wisconsin and the other 53 D-1 schools.

Notre Dame
4 years Tuition & Housing $200,000
Books $3,000
4 years Weight Training $35,000
4 years Full Time Medical Attention & Insurance $25,000
Unlimited Ice Time $25,000
Nutritionists & Dietitians $10,000
Academic Tutors $5,000
Air Fares & Hotels $35,000
& so on....

Add up the numbers and it probably comes to $750,000 or more "TAX FREE"

Then tell the parents to get the OHL to match that package.

While I agree with your post in principal, you might not want to include health care and insurance as a perk since its free in Canada.

 

[ND Hockey]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

While I agree with your post in principal, you might not want to include health care and insurance as a perk since its free in Canada.

Although it's free for a Canadian citizen like Fowler, does that apply to all Americans?

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Although it's free for a Canadian citizen like Fowler, does that apply to all Americans?

Assume the junior team would pay for any medical costs a US player accrued in Canada, just as a US university would pay medical costs of its scholarship athletes.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Had Smith not played in the OHL, where would he have played? The OPJHL? The NAHL? The USHL? The point of the matter is that were it not for the OHL, he would have no scholarship money period as he would not have been recruited as a scholarship player by a D-1 team.

We have no idea where Smith could have played. If MJ is so good, and he is the third string goalie, then maybe if he went to any one of those Junior leagues he could have gotten playing time, shown he was good and got a scholarship to a D-1 school. Are we ignoring that possibility for your benefit?

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Assume the junior team would pay for any medical costs a US player accrued in Canada, just as a US university would pay medical costs of its scholarship athletes.

I thought MJ teams could cut players who got hurt and pay nothing?

 

[jnacc]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

We have no idea where Smith could have played. If MJ is so good, and he is the third string goalie, then maybe if he went to any one of those Junior leagues he could have gotten playing time, shown he was good and got a scholarship to a D-1 school. Are we ignoring that possibility for your benefit?

You may be unaware of the fact that on average only 10 or so players on a D-1 team are on a full scholarship package. The rest are either on partials or have to pay the full cost of tuition, room and board.

There are many players from the USHL, widely considered to be the top Junior A league in the U.S., who are on partials or pay their full way. Matt Smith, the player in question here, was a 3rd string goalie in the OHL for a single season and did not see a minute of ice time. You may speculate that he would have received ample ice time in another league, that would have garnered him a scholarship.

You can end the speculation, however, as Matt Smith played in the OPJHL as a back up goaltender. How many back up goaltenders do you know, who hailed from a weak league, end up with a full ride to a D-1 institution?

NONE!

Again, the fact that such a player ended up with any scholarship at all is amazing in itself.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

So one guy got charity and a scholarship for really no reason, woohoo?

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

You may be unaware of the fact that on average only 10 or so players on a D-1 team are on a full scholarship package. The rest are either on partials or have to pay the full cost of tuition, room and board.

There are many players from the USHL, widely considered to be the top Junior A league in the U.S., who are on partials or pay their full way. Matt Smith, the player in question here, was a 3rd string goalie in the OHL for a single season and did not see a minute of ice time. You may speculate that he would have received ample ice time in another league, that would have garnered him a scholarship.

You can end the speculation, however, as Matt Smith played in the OPJHL as a back up goaltender. How many back up goaltenders do you know, who hailed from a weak league, end up with a full ride to a D-1 institution?

NONE!

Again, the fact that such a player ended up with any scholarship at all is amazing in itself.

While some of the players may be on partials part of that might be that they are eligible for financial aid. If a player for example got grades in HS and did well on the SATs the university would be able to offer them more merit based aid. This would not count against the team's scholarship count. This is part of the reason coaches love recruiting players who have decent grades.

 

[CaptainEO]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Guys you are missing a key point. College hockey has become a game of 20-21 year old freshman. These kids are not entering college at 18-19 when they should. This often forces the 18-19 year olds to make early decisions that they should not. The coaches should require freshmen to be no older than 20. This will help development on so many levels. At this point the college game is watered down.

Finally while you can be can be critical of the CHL you have to acknowledge and perhaps complement their marketing. They are doing a much better job than the NCAA.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Finally while you can be can be critical of the CHL you have to acknowledge and perhaps complement their marketing. They are doing a much better job than the NCAA.

I have to? Is this a government mandate?

I certainly have to compliment them on being able to cover up their lies for so long. That's some great spin work.

 

[Rich]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Guys you are missing a key point. College hockey has become a game of 20-21 year old freshman. These kids are not entering college at 18-19 when they should. This often forces the 18-19 year olds to make early decisions that they should not. The coaches should require freshmen to be no older than 20. This will help development on so many levels. At this point the college game is watered down.

Really? I just checked CC's roster and all 7 incoming freshmen will be 18 or 19, and only 4 of the 18 returning players started when they were 20 or older. It seems to me that's pretty common - the vast majority are 18-19, and there are a few late bloomers who come in at 20.

You may be unaware of the fact that on average only 10 or so players on a D-1 team are on a full scholarship package. The rest are either on partials or have to pay the full cost of tuition, room and board.

You're really stretching to paint the numbers in as poor a light as possible, aren't you? The NCAA allows teams to give up to 18 athletic scholarships for ice hockey. If a team does give out 10 full ride scholarships as you suggest, that means that they still have 8 that they can dole out as partials. If a roster has about 26 players on average, that could mean that the other 16 players each get a half scholarship. That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me! You won't find any Major Junior team that every year puts 10 guys through school fully paid and pays for another 16 halfway. And of course that also leaves out the guys who earn academic scholarships, recieve grants, etc. Even if they have to pay their way 100% (and VERY few do), they still come out of the deal with a degree after they're done - making them no worse off than your typical college graduate.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Really? I just checked CC's roster and all 7 incoming freshmen will be 18 or 19, and only 4 of the 18 returning players started when they were 20 or older. It seems to me that's pretty common - the vast majority are 18-19, and there are a few late bloomers who come in at 20.

That's CC, though. Some schools have to look primarily for the late bloomers who couldn't get scholarships at other schools when they were 19.


Powers &8^]

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Guys you are missing a key point. College hockey has become a game of 20-21 year old freshman. These kids are not entering college at 18-19 when they should. This often forces the 18-19 year olds to make early decisions that they should not. The coaches should require freshmen to be no older than 20. This will help development on so many levels. At this point the college game is watered down.

Finally while you can be can be critical of the CHL you have to acknowledge and perhaps complement their marketing. They are doing a much better job than the NCAA.

CHL has a huge advantage over college. They can and do pay their players. So yes, kudos to them for the "marketing" victory.

 

[moose97]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Guys you are missing a key point. College hockey has become a game of 20-21 year old freshman. These kids are not entering college at 18-19 when they should. This often forces the 18-19 year olds to make early decisions that they should not. The coaches should require freshmen to be no older than 20. This will help development on so many levels. At this point the college game is watered down.

Really? I just checked CC's roster and all 7 incoming freshmen will be 18 or 19, and only 4 of the 18 returning players started when they were 20 or older. It seems to me that's pretty common - the vast majority are 18-19, and there are a few late bloomers who come in at 20.

Bemidji State has 6 incomming freshmen, and there are 4 - 20 and 2 - 21 year olds in that group...

 

[CaptainEO]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Need to check the east coast rosters closely. Quinnipiac, St. Lawrence Vermont Maine plenty of 20-21 year old freshman. Oh by the way, remember John Moore the 18 year old CC recruit - oh yes ended up in Kitchener. I am not saying the O is for everybody but again they are getting lots of young US Talent.

 

[4four4]

Re: Fascinating story on reality of OHL education packages vs NCAA

Need to check the east coast rosters closely. Quinnipiac, St. Lawrence Vermont Maine plenty of 20-21 year old freshman. Oh by the way, remember John Moore the 18 year old CC recruit - oh yes ended up in Kitchener. I am not saying the O is for everybody but again they are getting lots of young US Talent.

Who cares about the east coast rosters. The national championships are won in the west.