Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

On this particular issue that you raise, I would say that there is some advantage to being a well qualified minority candidate as I can easily see it being a deciding factor in a hiring decision whether you're trying to reach an arbitrary quota or you just want people from several different backgrounds working for you.

Where I've repeatedly come down on this for Warren is that just looking at the woman during the job interview will tell you that she's not going to do you any good with the PC police when they come checking up on your school so why hire her under the guise of Affirmative Action? Perception is 9/10ths reality as the saying goes, and I don't care what ratios you publish if your "minority" faculty all looks like her there's no way you'll be able to get away with that before somebody blows the whistle on you. Worse you'd be constantly in danger of taking flak from both the right and the left thus leaving the school with no defenders.

"No way. . .to get away with that?" Really? They got away with it for over a decade.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

It also helps that a private school has much greater latitude in dismissing that teacher.

This is true. When I was in high school, I recall at least two teachers who were fired after parental complaints regarding competency of instruction. Additionally, the dean of academics would regularly pop in to classes unannounced, sit in the back, and observe.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

This is true. When I was in high school, I recall at least two teachers who were fired after parental complaints regarding competency of instruction. Additionally, the dean of academics would regularly pop in to classes unannounced, sit in the back, and observe.

When I was a kid (and presumably today) many non-Catholic parents in Chicagoland sent their kids to parochial schools knowing the kids would get a better quality of instruction and that they would be seen as something more than just sheep to provide the annual allotment of wool. On our block several families shared a lovely, hard working African American woman who did weekly house keeping and occasional baby sitting and other duties. We all loved her. And my parents and all the people she worked for established a fund to enable her to send her kids to Catholic schools. I realize that sounds hopelessly outdated today. And some would call it racist. But it isn't and it wasn't.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

On our block several families shared a lovely, hard working African American woman. We all loved her. I realize that sounds hopelessly outdated today. And some would call it racist. But it isn't and it wasn't.

Racist.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

This is true. When I was in high school, I recall at least two teachers who were fired after parental complaints regarding competency of instruction. Additionally, the dean of academics would regularly pop in to classes unannounced, sit in the back, and observe.

I think that rather than this being an argument for private education, it should be a goal to start enforcing these policies in public schools. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that these kinds of policies already exist in most school districts, which means that failure to follow them has nothing to do with unions. And if you used these policies to document shortcomings, districts could opt not to offer new contracts to teachers and there would be nothing the unions could do. In districts that do enforce these policies, that's typically how it works.

And I'm going to let you in on a little secret about private education: there is one big difference between private and public schools that account for a tremendous amount of the difference in performance. Parent involvement. I don't mean helicopter parents, just parents who give a crap. At any school where most students go home to a household that cares about their education, that school will always perform well. When you have a school where half or more of the students go home to households that don't care, that school will not perform well.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

And I'm going to let you in on a little secret about private education: there is one big difference between private and public schools that account for a tremendous amount of the difference in performance. Parent involvement. I don't mean helicopter parents, just parents who give a crap. At any school where most students go home to a household that cares about their education, that school will always perform well. When you have a school will half or more of the students go home to households that don't care, that school will not perform well.

This is plainly visible in Detroit. Schools in the city, or in 'burbs like Inkster, Ypsilanti, and Pontiac struggle because a majority of the kids are dirt poor, their parents are absent or careless, and so they get sucked into gangs and/or drugs. Meanwhile, schools in Bloomfield, Birmingham, and Rochester Hills are stellar, because that is where a majority of the upper crust lives, where the tax dollars pour in, and where all the good teachers want to teach.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

This is plainly visible in Detroit. Schools in the city, or in 'burbs like Inkster, Ypsilanti, and Pontiac struggle because a majority of the kids are dirt poor, their parents are absent or careless, and so they get sucked into gangs and/or drugs. Meanwhile, schools in Bloomfield, Birmingham, and Rochester Hills are stellar, because that is where a majority of the upper crust lives, where the tax dollars pour in, and where all the good teachers want to teach.

The same thing applies where I went to HS. It's pretty funny to listen to a cousin of mine who went to Taft HS in Chicago. If he ever gets called on not knowing something he says "Whaddaya waaant. I'm just a dumb CPS grad." It's a joke, but back in the 90's I think CPS may have been rated as the worst school district in the country. My HS, in the affluent (although not SUPER-rich) suburbs was generally considered to be higher performing academically than most area private schools. And again, just like private schools, I had some teachers who weren't great, but plain incompetence would not have stood, and no union would have protected it.

The difference is community involvement. It isn't unions, or the lack thereof. The methods to improve staff exist. What doesn't exist is the method to improve how much the community cares. Lack of money is a handi-cap, but it can be gotten around. Apathy is crippling.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Racist.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

The same thing applies where I went to HS. It's pretty funny to listen to a cousin of mine who went to Taft HS in Chicago. If he ever gets called on not knowing something he says "Whaddaya waaant. I'm just a dumb CPS grad." It's a joke, but back in the 90's I think CPS may have been rated as the worst school district in the country. My HS, in the affluent (although not SUPER-rich) suburbs was generally considered to be higher performing academically than most area private schools. And again, just like private schools, I had some teachers who weren't great, but plain incompetence would not have stood, and no union would have protected it.

The difference is community involvement. It isn't unions, or the lack thereof. The methods to improve staff exist. What doesn't exist is the method to improve how much the community cares. Lack of money is a handi-cap, but it can be gotten around. Apathy is crippling.

I've posted before about how at least once a year in grammar school my mother would invite my homeroom teacher for lunch on a school day. She was sending the unambiguous message that "the adults are in this together," so don't even go there with that b.s. that Miss Metcalf "doesn't like kids." You can imagine how much I looked forward to sitting there with my mother and teacher while I tried to remember to keep my elbows off the table. I later realized an unintended consequence of these little get togethers is I began to see my teachers as people and not just prison guards.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

I've posted before about how at least once a year in grammar school my mother would invite my homeroom teacher for lunch on a school day. She was sending the unambiguous message that "the adults are in this together," so don't even go there with that b.s. that Miss Metcalf "doesn't like kids." You can imagine how much I looked forward to sitting there with my mother and teacher while I tried to remember to keep my elbows off the table. I later realized an unintended consequence of these little get togethers is I began to see my teachers as people and not just prison guards.

It's amazing how many unintended consequences turn up when people go out of their way to try to create a sense of community.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

It's amazing how many unintended consequences turn up when people go out of their way to try to create a sense of community.

And teach their stupid kids the world doesn't revolve around them and they aren't in charge.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

I think that rather than this being an argument for private education, it should be a goal to start enforcing these policies in public schools. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that these kinds of policies already exist in most school districts, which means that failure to follow them has nothing to do with unions. And if you used these policies to document shortcomings, districts could opt not to offer new contracts to teachers and there would be nothing the unions could do. In districts that do enforce these policies, that's typically how it works.

And I'm going to let you in on a little secret about private education: there is one big difference between private and public schools that account for a tremendous amount of the difference in performance. Parent involvement. I don't mean helicopter parents, just parents who give a crap. At any school where most students go home to a household that cares about their education, that school will always perform well. When you have a school where half or more of the students go home to households that don't care, that school will not perform well.

Nice sentiments, unfortunately in NY state at least you are wrong about the teachers' unions. NY City spends millions of dollars each year paying teachers not to teach. They collect salaries for not teaching because the city cannot fire them.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Nice sentiments, unfortunately in NY state at least you are wrong about the teachers' unions. NY City spends millions of dollars each year paying teachers not to teach. They collect salaries for not teaching because the city cannot fire them.

These bums gather every day in "rubber rooms" where they amuse themselves by doing the Times crossword, texting, placing OTB wagers and all the rest. Taxpayers foot the bill for this nonsense. Naturally. One goal of all unions (public sector and private) is to increase the membership (and the resulting dues) and to make it as hard as possible to fire useless union members.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

These bums gather every day in "rubber rooms" where they amuse themselves by doing the Times crossword, texting, placing OTB wagers and all the rest. Taxpayers foot the bill for this nonsense. Naturally. One goal of all unions (public sector and private) is to increase the membership (and the resulting dues) and to make it as hard as possible to fire useless union members.

Absolutely. Their mentality is that it's far better to keep 100 bad teachers on staff than to accidentally let one good teacher go (free).

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

These bums gather every day in "rubber rooms" where they amuse themselves by doing the Times crossword, texting, placing OTB wagers and all the rest. Taxpayers foot the bill for this nonsense. Naturally. One goal of all unions (public sector and private) is to increase the membership (and the resulting dues) and to make it as hard as possible to fire useless union members.

I've heard about this and from my understanding it has nothing to do with layabout teachers getting paid to do crossword puzzles. The problem is if a student makes an accusation against a teacher (sexual, a beatdown, etc) the school has to pull the teacher out of the classroom for obvious liability reasons. However, you can't just fire them (and here's where having a union is a good thing) based on some doped out 14 year old trying to get attention. So, they go into purgatory for awhile until it gets sorted out. I don't recall what the exact %'s are, but I believe the vast majority of accusations turn out to be bogus.

So, once again we have a situation where knuckledraggers are trying to make the teachers out to be the bad guys, when in fact they aren't responsible for these events (by and large, I'm sure some of the accusations end up being true).

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Hmm... total speculation....perhaps the reason a copy of BHO's college records cannot be found anywhere resides in his having applied as a Kenyan transfer student and not as a US citizen?

If anything, he would be Indonesian, given he grew up there.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

I've heard about this and from my understanding it has nothing to do with layabout teachers getting paid to do crossword puzzles. The problem is if a student makes an accusation against a teacher (sexual, a beatdown, etc) the school has to pull the teacher out of the classroom for obvious liability reasons. However, you can't just fire them (and here's where having a union is a good thing) based on some doped out 14 year old trying to get attention. So, they go into purgatory for awhile until it gets sorted out. I don't recall what the exact %'s are, but I believe the vast majority of accusations turn out to be bogus.

So, once again we have a situation where knuckledraggers are trying to make the teachers out to be the bad guys, when in fact they aren't responsible for these events (by and large, I'm sure some of the accusations end up being true).

Exactly. A lot of good people have lost careers over lies from 14-year-olds. There has to be a way to make sure that teachers who mess with students are out, while also making sure that a student with a grudge over a bad grade or a detention doesn't destroy the life of a good person. Maybe New York's way isn't perfect, but I promise that unions are not the problem.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

I've heard about this and from my understanding it has nothing to do with layabout teachers getting paid to do crossword puzzles. The problem is if a student makes an accusation against a teacher (sexual, a beatdown, etc) the school has to pull the teacher out of the classroom for obvious liability reasons. However, you can't just fire them (and here's where having a union is a good thing) based on some doped out 14 year old trying to get attention. So, they go into purgatory for awhile until it gets sorted out. I don't recall what the exact %'s are, but I believe the vast majority of accusations turn out to be bogus.

That may or may not be the case elsewhere; in New York City these are not mere "accusations" these are cases where the administration has actual proof, yet the process is stacked to such an extent that they still cannot fire most of these teachers, even with a smoking gun.

If you are not aware of NYC situation first-hand from day-to-day reports over a period of years, then I can understand that you might be incredulous when you hear the actual situation described. It is beyond reasonable.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

It's a cookie-cutter problem and solution.

It's all the union's fault.
Abolish the union.
Problem solved.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

That may or may not be the case elsewhere; in New York City these are not mere "accusations" these are cases where the administration has actual proof, yet the process is stacked to such an extent that they still cannot fire most of these teachers, even with a smoking gun.

If you are not aware of NYC situation first-hand from day-to-day reports over a period of years, then I can understand that you might be incredulous when you hear the actual situation described. It is beyond reasonable.

Fishy I believe the program I watched (Dateline or something like that) was specific to NYC. As I'm genuinly curious about this and don't remember it as well as some other stories I'd watched, I'm curious who's still on the payroll in NYC despite a conviction for say banging a student. Usually that's a one way ticket to unemployment but again if there's some stories out there I'd certainly take a look.