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Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

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Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Rover said:
All these wordy explanations are nice, but it still amounts to political race baiting. This is different from racism, as again I don't think Sen Brown is a racist. However, when you adopt a campaign to get people to vote for you or against your opponent based on outrage over some made up controversy over preferential treatment for minorities you're playing a dangerous game. In fact its no different than the "Ricketts Plan" that was recently shelved only because it became public.

Take pirate's post for example. You've got the strawman argument that nobody is making "As for Ms. Warren...the issue isn't if she is a minority, although for EEOC purposes there is a 'cutoff' for defining oneself in a class...so for all of the "well what if i was 1/1,000 caveman, could i delclare that" moronic statements, the answer legally is no. "

Then you've got the creeping insinuation " it is whether she would claim the status of minority selectively in a situation in which being a minority could provide her benefit. ". So, the fact that Harvard has already said it had nothing to do with her being hired apparently is unknown to pirate (unlikely given his apparent familiarity with the story)....or is an attempt to justify repeated insinuations in the absence of any proof that she 'got ahead' by claming Indian heritage.

But he goes deeper: "but if you knew that part of the formula would give preference to minorities and you suddenly became one or suddenly remembered that old family story, that is an integrity issue in my view." - Again, do you have *any* indication that she suddenly remembered being a minority in time for a job interview?

Finally, he bring it home, as all he cares about is those poor minorities that Warren has apparently wronged: "That she has spent so much time claiming to support the rights of the downtrodden, and may have, I repeat, may have, prevented a more legitimate minority candidate from attaining such a lofty role by stretching the definition of minority to suit her employment ambitions ". Well, it was at least nice of you to qualify this with a "may have, I repeat, may have".

Bottom line is, you are engaging in blatant race baiting along the lines of the Willie Horton ads from years ago. You may not like that, but that's the fact. Based on nothing more than a woman saying she had Indian heritage, which is entirely possible although not officially documented, you've now supposed that 1) she actively plotted to take advantage of diverse faculty ratios to advance her career going so far as to suddenly remember a family story when it suited her, and 2) in the process she's beaten out countless other "true minority" candidates for these jobs solely on the basis of her deceit. All this from a legal profession register and a cookbook. Is the cookbook the smoking gun?
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If you don't think affirmative action is still going on, and that there aren't millions of dollars at stake based on who can claim how much minority ancestry, you haven't been near a university lately. It's very much alive and well. (there's nothing "made up" about it.)
The point being there is plenty of financial incentive to make these felonious claims at the expense of honest people. There's nothing harmless about it.
But you can't seriously be surprised that Harvard won't admit it goes on...
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

geezer said:
If you don't think affirmative action is still going on, and that there aren't millions of dollars at stake based on who can claim how much minority ancestry, you haven't been near a university lately. It's very much alive and well. (there's nothing "made up" about it.)
The point being there is plenty of financial incentive to make these felonious claims at the expense of honest people. There's nothing harmless about it.
But you can't seriously be surprised that Harvard won't admit it goes on...
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How does this relate to Elizabeth Warren though? Are you too saying that 1) she's the product of an affirmative action hiring, or 2) she's made felonious claims at the expense of honest people? Or 3) Harvard has engaged in a cover-up?

But I'm going to put you on the spot. How can Harvard prove to you they aren't engaged in a cover up? Should they produce a document dated from the time of her hiring saying they aren't hiring her because of any minority preferances? That's kinda ridiculous.
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Rover said:
How does this relate to Elizabeth Warren though? Are you too saying that 1) she's the product of an affirmative action hiring, or 2) she's made felonious claims at the expense of honest people? Or 3) Harvard has engaged in a cover-up?

But I'm going to put you on the spot. How can Harvard prove to you they aren't engaged in a cover up? Should they produce a document dated from the time of her hiring saying they aren't hiring her because of any minority preferances? That's kinda ridiculous.
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It doesn't relate to her, and I don't care about her - except that you appeared to be saying that she couldn't have been claiming minority status for career benefits, because those benefits are minor or nonexistent. They're huge.
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Rover said:
How does this relate to Elizabeth Warren though? Are you too saying that 1) she's the product of an affirmative action hiring, or 2) she's made felonious claims at the expense of honest people? Or 3) Harvard has engaged in a cover-up?

But I'm going to put you on the spot. How can Harvard prove to you they aren't engaged in a cover up? Should they produce a document dated from the time of her hiring saying they aren't hiring her because of any minority preferances? That's kinda ridiculous.
Click to expand...
If an official document from the state of Hawaii isn't good enough, do you honestly expect anything Harvard produces to be valid?
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

geezer said:
It doesn't relate to her, and I don't care about her - except that you appeared to be saying that she couldn't have been claiming minority status for career benefits, because those benefits are minor or nonexistent. They're huge.
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On this particular issue that you raise, I would say that there is some advantage to being a well qualified minority candidate as I can easily see it being a deciding factor in a hiring decision whether you're trying to reach an arbitrary quota or you just want people from several different backgrounds working for you.

Where I've repeatedly come down on this for Warren is that just looking at the woman during the job interview will tell you that she's not going to do you any good with the PC police when they come checking up on your school so why hire her under the guise of Affirmative Action? Perception is 9/10ths reality as the saying goes, and I don't care what ratios you publish if your "minority" faculty all looks like her there's no way you'll be able to get away with that before somebody blows the whistle on you. Worse you'd be constantly in danger of taking flak from both the right and the left thus leaving the school with no defenders.
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Rover said:
she's not going to do you any good with the PC police when they come checking up on your school so why hire her under the guise of Affirmative Action?
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I disagree. It's all about publishable numbers, regardless of what your visual impressions would be if you walked around and looked at the people. As an example, MTU has been pumping out claims about how many more females are now on campus, but when you go out and look at them you can't really tell they're females. ;)
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

the race card and the politics card, very convenient escape hatches
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

geezer said:
I disagree. It's all about publishable numbers, regardless of what your visual impressions would be if you walked around and looked at the people. As an example, MTU has been pumping out claims about how many more females are now on campus, but when you go out and look at them you can't really tell they're females. ;)
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Nobody said affirmative action, don't get pulled down that rabbit hole...you'll end up arguing against something that has never been claimed
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

If you've got ten minutes to gawk at the condition of today's schools, this is just sad and hilarious all at the same time.

Title: Teacher yells at student because of a question he asked about Obama!

http://youtu.be/vjpWaESn_9g
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

FlagDUDE08 said:
And yet, I bet the teacher bashed Dubya at every chance she could get from 2001-2009.
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WHOOSH2.gif
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

geezer said:
I disagree. It's all about publishable numbers, regardless of what your visual impressions would be if you walked around and looked at the people. As an example, MTU has been pumping out claims about how many more females are now on campus, but when you go out and look at them you can't really tell they're females. ;)
Click to expand...

No wonder you're so crabby! :D
 
Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Kepler said:
One idiot stands for all schools? Then I suppose one idiot stands for all churches?

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It's exactly the same. Except there are no mandatory church attendance laws anywhere in this country as there are for students K-12. And crack pot ministers aren't paid out of the public till. But you keep making tu quoque arguments. Me, I'm just worried that Jeneane Garofalo's gonna come arrest me for speaking out against His Oneness.

BTW, the very best teachers I had back in "Leave it to Beaverville" would challenge our smug, snotty high school assumptions about the world. Gene Silver, Walt Lacyk, Morris Buske and others were what made it worthwhile to walk to school (uphill both ways) even in below zero weather.

This b*tch, however, is off the charts stupid and should be transferred to the cafeteria. And you know it, dontcha?
 
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Re: Elections 2012: You must choose the lesser of two weevils

Rover said:
How does this relate to Elizabeth Warren though? Are you too saying that 1) she's the product of an affirmative action hiring, or 2) she's made felonious claims at the expense of honest people? Or 3) Harvard has engaged in a cover-up?

But I'm going to put you on the spot. How can Harvard prove to you they aren't engaged in a cover up? Should they produce a document dated from the time of her hiring saying they aren't hiring her because of any minority preferances? That's kinda ridiculous.
Click to expand...

What's kinda ridiculous is giving a blonde blue eyed woman, with no verifiable claims of minority status, any consideration whatsoever based on that asserted status. It's also kinda ridiculous for America's "most prestigious" law school to subsequently pat itself on the back for having hired its first "minority professor." The jig is up. This is one instance where an elite school has been caught gilding the lily. If Princess Summerfall Winterspring had given a plausible (read: truthful) explanation in the beginning, this whole business would have gone away. But she didn't and it hasn't.
 
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