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Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The thread title reminds me of a wonderful, insightful Disney short from 1934 called The Grasshopper and the Ant, which is based on the fable of the same name.

The basic story is pretty simple: the ants work hard all summer while the grasshopper plays; the ants warn the grasshopper about the need to prepare for winter and the grasshopper ignores their warning, and then when winter comes the grasshopper is starving while the ants have plenty of food stored away.

I remember the first time I heard that fable, I thought "the ants are so mean!" If I was supposed to learn some other lesson, either I was too young at the time or I missed it.

Anyway, the Disney reinterpretation was quite inspiring, and fit the spirit of the times (the bleakest part of the Great Depression) quite well. Of course it has catchy music, intricate detailed animation, and lush colors...the ants are busy working, while the grasshopper plays his fiddle and sings "the world owes me a living" while he chides the ants for being all work and no play. Of course the ants keep in working industriously all summer and warn the grasshopper that he needs to think ahead. Of course, winter comes, the cold wind is blowing, and a shivering starving grasshopper knocks on the ants' door. The workers let him in, and he is brought to the queen, who at first speaks to him sternly: "Only those that work can eat." The grasshopper, disappointed, starts to turn away, but the queen smiles and says "so pick up your fiddle, and play!" and so the ants are partying, the grasshopper is playing for them to dance, and singing "I owe the world a living."

I like it especially that the Queen shows the grasshopper that he does have something of value to offer; it is her creativeness that allows the ants to be consistent with their values and also be generous to the grasshopper when they did not "have" to.

Wikipedia has a longer, more detailed write-up here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper










Too many times, rich people are demonized solely for being rich, despite the fact that so many of them do engage in acts of generosity and kindness in trying to help those less privileged than themselves learn how to become more self-sufficient than they are. I am one of those who are reluctant to use government compulsion to force people to behave this way, I also see plenty of private foundations set up by the many of these rich people do lots of good work out of the spotlight. it is a funny thing about human nature; people may do something voluntarily, yet resist doing exactly the same thing if someone tries to force them.
 
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

walrus said:
He can look at my books if he wants to know the truth and it ain't "fine"
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I don't know what your business is, but I know a bunch of people that are struggling but had businesses that completely depended on the obviously unsustainable housing bubble for their remarkable success. Builders, plumbers, well drillers, real estate agents that lived like they were a plastic surgeon raking in the bucks doing boob jobs. The plumber that goes from doing new house after new house in a subdivision and then goes back to fixing leaky sinks and toilets isn't a happy guy. Now he has a new harley to pay for, a boat, snowmobiles, a second home, all purchased during the boom years and blames Obama for his financial trouble.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Handyman said:
No I dont...I want people to bud out of my life unless they want me budding into theirs. I am just refuting your BS opinion that the Right thinks for themselves while the Liberals follow groupthink. All politics is groupthink...if you think for yourself your caucus leaves you behind. The Right is just as indoctrinated as the Left and you are either blind or mentally handicapped if you can't see that. The fact that conservatives supported Dubya, who was anything but a conservative, pretty much proves that fact.

As long as these are the two options we have (the GOP and the Dems) this country is screwed.
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It's very much a right-vs-left, R-vs-D thing going on in this country. And it's infuriating. While I certainly come down as a conservative person on pretty much every fiscal issue I've come across, when people ask me my stance on gay marriage or something else that requires no money from someone else, they're often surprised to hear/read what I say, having pegged me in their own minds for a certain way of thinking. I'm very much the small-L libertarian because I also firmly believe that if the Libertarian Party ever a strong hold in government, it would also get caught up in the power grab and lose its principles. Never underestimate the power of group think.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

BassAle said:
I don't know what your business is, but I know a bunch of people that are struggling but had businesses that completely depended on the obviously unsustainable housing bubble for their remarkable success. Builders, plumbers, well drillers, real estate agents that lived like they were a plastic surgeon raking in the bucks doing boob jobs. The plumber that goes from doing new house after new house in a subdivision and then goes back to fixing leaky sinks and toilets isn't a happy guy. Now he has a new harley to pay for, a boat, snowmobiles, a second home, all purchased during the boom years and blames Obama for his financial trouble.
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Not a very PC thing to point out but true for some I know too. Lots of people I know were buying things on credit cards, way past their means. Their kids had to have all the new electronics, the most expensive sports equipment, they had to have the huge TV, the special sunglasses, the Coach/Kate Spade purses and the Suburban. Mr les and I were chided for being stingy and not up with the times when we cautious with the cash and weren't following suit. These are the same people who are really bitter that they can't pay off their mountain of debt and to gas up their huge cars takes half a pay check. I really wish there was a queen ant to help them.

Realizing I sound a 'bit' righteous but it really was grating to have people looking down on us for being sensible and having no filter on what they said to us and our kid (parents on lil les team) regarding out lack of Suburban, huge TV and multiple electronic toys. Part of me has a huge I told you so inside but that doesn't help them recover and it can't be fun to go from opulence to needing to watch every dime with huge $ owed and 2nd jobs not available around here.
 
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

BassAle said:
I don't know what your business is, but I know a bunch of people that are struggling but had businesses that completely depended on the obviously unsustainable housing bubble for their remarkable success. Builders, plumbers, well drillers, real estate agents that lived like they were a plastic surgeon raking in the bucks doing boob jobs. The plumber that goes from doing new house after new house in a subdivision and then goes back to fixing leaky sinks and toilets isn't a happy guy. Now he has a new harley to pay for, a boat, snowmobiles, a second home, all purchased during the boom years and blames Obama for his financial trouble.
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My business has nothing to do with residential work . I talked to a well driller earlier in the spring, a guy who has been in business longer than you've been alive and he had ZERO wells to drill. Any plumber, electrician, carpenter doing commercial work is doing ok, any one doing municipal or govt.work is great, anyone doing residential is screwed or already out of business.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

walrus said:
My business has nothing to do with residential work . I talked to a well driller earlier in the spring, a guy who has been in business longer than you've been alive and he had ZERO wells to drill. Any plumber, electrician, carpenter doing commercial work is doing ok, any one doing municipal or govt.work is great, anyone doing residential is screwed or already out of business.
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My cousin's hubby was so busy a few yrs ago he took himself out of the yellow pages. Now nada. On the other hand I know some people who are busy, busy. It seems to be location related.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

FreshFish said:
The basic story is pretty simple: the ants work hard all summer while the grasshopper plays; the ants warn the grasshopper about the need to prepare for winter and the grasshopper ignores their warning, and then when winter comes the grasshopper is starving while the ants have plenty of food stored away.

I remember the first time I heard that fable, I thought "the ants are so mean!" If I was supposed to learn some other lesson, either I was too young at the time or I missed it.
Click to expand...

So the ants are the people who are worried about climate change and the grasshopper represents the guy who insists there is no climate change even while the rising water laps at his foundation...

;)
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Priceless said:
So the ants are the people who are worried about climate change and the grasshopper represents the guy who insists there is no climate change even while the rising water laps at his foundation...

;)
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Wait, isn't there a separate thread for this :p
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

FlagDUDE08 said:
What about BBC News? I seem to hear a lot of people watch that. Maybe it's just this country.

I saw a study, not sure if it was on CNBC, Fox Snooze, or somewhere else, but that the comprehension level of the State of the Union addresses have been going progressively downhill. This includes BOTH parties. I think they said two of the three lowest were by Obama (the 3rd was given by Bush 41). I wonder if anyone can even understand the Constitution today.
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I think this has a lot to do with accessibility. In 1920, the state of the union only had to be understood by the Congress, and whatever news reporters were present. Because no one else would ever hear it. And the news people could (and, I'm quite certain did) lower the comprehension level of whatever aspects of it they wrote about. Not that I am refuting your point entirely, but in the current day and age, it is legitimate to say that the Statue of the Union address should be understandable by a high school dropout.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

duper said:
No they don't. They know it's comedy, and they still think it's more true (if not necessarily more accurate) than anything on the news.
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And when Stewart is wrong, he actually admits it and apologizes/corrects his error. Certain other "news" outlets don't do that... In fact,they went to court and argued that the "news" doesn't have to be true (and won)
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

walrus said:
My business has nothing to do with residential work . I talked to a well driller earlier in the spring, a guy who has been in business longer than you've been alive and he had ZERO wells to drill. Any plumber, electrician, carpenter doing commercial work is doing ok, any one doing municipal or govt.work is great, anyone doing residential is screwed or already out of business.
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I know a well driller too. His father started the business, now he's on the verge of losing it all. He built a monster house a few years ago that he's trying to unload. Never had a shortage of money. New vehicles, motorcycles, snowmobiles, expensive vacations, etc. --even the kids had all the toys - Harleys, snowmobiles, expensive vehicles. Lived like the boom was never going to stop and spent the money as fast as it came in...
 
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Priceless said:
So the ants are the people who are worried about climate change and the grasshopper represents the guy who insists there is no climate change even while the rising water laps at his foundation...
Click to expand...

I think you have the wrong story for this example, isn't it Chicken Little who runs around saying "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" because he misinterpreted the data?
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Priceless said:
So the ants are the people who are worried about climate change and the grasshopper represents the guy who insists there is no climate change even while the rising water laps at his foundation...
Click to expand...
That only makes sense if the people who are worried about climate change are also working diligently preparing for its consequences.

The ant-grasshopper story most closely parallels how people (don't) prepare for their retirement. The ants are the people who make do with less, living frugally throughout their lives, saving as much as they can; the grasshoppers are the people who continually carry credit card balances, don't participate in 401(k) plans (or contribute a bare minimum), and who find themselves relying on social security and/or their children when they leave the workforce.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Bakunin said:
That only makes sense if the people who are worried about climate change are also working diligently preparing for its consequences.

The ant-grasshopper story most closely parallels how people (don't) prepare for their retirement. The ants are the people who make do with less, living frugally throughout their lives, saving as much as they can; the grasshoppers are the people who continually carry credit card balances, don't participate in 401(k) plans (or contribute a bare minimum), and who find themselves relying on social security and/or their children when they leave the workforce.
Click to expand...

Grasshoppers are more commonly known as Baby Boomers.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Bakunin said:
That only makes sense if the people who are worried about climate change are also working diligently preparing for its consequences.

The ant-grasshopper story most closely parallels how people (don't) prepare for their retirement. The ants are the people who make do with less, living frugally throughout their lives, saving as much as they can; the grasshoppers are the people who continually carry credit card balances, don't participate in 401(k) plans (or contribute a bare minimum), and who find themselves relying on social security and/or their children when they leave the workforce.
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A big part of the problem. Like the sibling that goes awry and sucks up mom and dad's time and resources (because they have to) we have a growing percentage of folks who marry poor career prospects with keeping up with the jones' and then look to somebody else to solve their mortgage, credit card, weight and income problems. It isn't the 1% alone buying all the luxury cars, vacation houses, smartphones, big screens, xbox's, boob jobs, boats, cruises etc.

While many think that consumption taxes would impact the 'non-rich' in a negative manner, perhaps it would help them realize they can't afford to have media rooms, 3 cars, patios with firepits, and all of the above.
 
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