Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Meanwhile, that idiot Axelrod is explaining that we can help the private sector by hiring more cops, firefighters and teachers! Somebody shake that guy to see if he's awake.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ivate-sector-hire-more-teachers-firefighters/

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Subscribed. It's hopeless.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Why are you worried about what a comedy program airs for political bias? Nobody doubts that Jon Stewart is a raging liberal, he says as much himself.

In a world where people ever grew up, you'd have a point. The bad news is that Americans in their blind stupidity recently voted Jon Stewart the "most trusted news anchor" in the business.

No seriously, they think it's the news.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Just remember though...the Right thinks for themselves Flag told us so! (Faux News pretty much proves that wrong on a minute by minute basis as do Republican women voting against women's rights but that is just not within his purview im sure )

You mean women who are voting for the freedom to choose their meds over taking a chance at the government saying "no meds for you"? You like someone telling you what you can and cannot have, eh? It's a perfect scenario for brainless people.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

You mean women who are voting for the freedom to choose their meds over taking a chance at the government saying "no meds for you"? You like someone telling you what you can and cannot have, eh? It's a perfect scenario for brainless people.

Men vote against "rights" and "freedoms" for themselves all the time and nobody feigns surprise. There are very few true anarchists in Congress, as it turns out.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

In a world where people ever grew up, you'd have a point. The bad news is that Americans in their blind stupidity recently voted Jon Stewart the "most trusted news anchor" in the business.

No seriously, they think it's the news.

Well, I don't consider any of the other 'news anchors' particularly trustworthy so I didn't blink an eyelash at this

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

In a world where people ever grew up, you'd have a point. The bad news is that Americans in their blind stupidity recently voted Jon Stewart the "most trusted news anchor" in the business.

No seriously, they think it's the news.

Maybe they were just making an ironic point about the trustworthiness of "real" news shows?

There are no real news shows anymore. All the major networks cut their news staffs and recycle talking points handed to them by partisans and plants because it's easier. The 24-hour "news" shows are either explicit party propaganda organs like FNC/MSNBC or TMZ-like entertainment networks like CNN. Nobody can run real news anymore because it's expensive to research and difficult to do correctly, and way above the heads of the mass audience. The closest thing there is to an honest, deeply-researched news show is PBS News Hour, and I'll bet its viewership numbers make college hockey look like a ratings juggernaut.

A lot of things in the culture used to be aspirational -- there were news shows and interviews and lectures that were pitched way, way above the average level of intellect and knowledge, and people were expected to want to reach for them and stretch themselves. It was taken for granted that only a small slice of the public was ever going to be capable of a meaningful contribution to public discourse, but the egalitarianism of America was that everybody including the clerk behind the kosher deli stand who read a pocket copy of Moses Maimonides between orders could have the next great idea. That was equality of opportunity.

The Great Dumbing Down was when we stopped respecting people who knew more and had thought more about topics than we. That's what makes the screaming shows that pass for political discussion possible. It's funny, because the people who scream the loudest about the predations of "relativism" don't understand their very presence on those shows is due to the worst excess of relativism: the idea that the market value of somebody's opinion is its truth value.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Maybe they were just making an ironic point about the trustworthiness of "real" news shows?

There are no real news shows anymore. All the major networks cut their news staffs and recycle talking points handed to them by partisans and plants because it's easier. The 24-hour "news" shows are either explicit party propaganda organs like FNC/MSNBC or TMZ-like entertainment networks like CNN. Nobody can run real news anymore because it's expensive to research and difficult to correctly, and way above the heads of the mass audience. The rot has set in and the people have been given what they want. The closest thing there is to an honest, deeply-researched news show is PBS News Hour, and I'll bet it's viewership numbers make college hockey look like a ratings juggernaut.

What about BBC News? I seem to hear a lot of people watch that. Maybe it's just this country.

I saw a study, not sure if it was on CNBC, Fox Snooze, or somewhere else, but that the comprehension level of the State of the Union addresses have been going progressively downhill. This includes BOTH parties. I think they said two of the three lowest were by Obama (the 3rd was given by Bush 41). I wonder if anyone can even understand the Constitution today.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Pretty good summary of where the Obama campaign needs to get to by the election. There are a lot of subtleties to the underlying argument, but the bumper sticker synopsis is simple enough: Romney will bring back the same policies that cratered the economy and exploded the debt.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The Great Dumbing Down was when we stopped respecting people who knew more and had thought more about topics than we. That's what makes the screaming shows that pass for political discussion possible. It's funny, because the people who scream the loudest about the predations of "relativism" don't understand their very presence on those shows is due to the worst excess of relativism: the idea that the market value of somebody's opinion is its truth value.

um, Richard Hofstadter won the Pulitzer Prize in 1964 for his book Anti-Intellectualism in American Life....it's a time-honored tradition, not something all that "new."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Men vote against "rights" and "freedoms" for themselves all the time and nobody feigns surprise. There are very few true anarchists in Congress, as it turns out.

We've been doing that for over 150 years. They only put makeup on the dog's face to make you think it's a good thing, but they don't realise they are voting against freedoms.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The linked article is very good. I'm only on page 5 but I think there's a lot of thoughtful analysis in it for anybody, even folks with full on Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Here's my favorite quote:

“The ideal conditions for both sides to come together and get something done are when you have a President who is at the peak of his power but is not going to benefit politically from it,”

Some of the blind obstructionism against All Things Obama is pure grandstanding for the Haters, and that won't stop, but a lot of it is calculated: they refuse to do anything that might improve things under Obama's watch because then he would be a stronger Fall candidate. If Obama is reelected, the spite motivation disappears. At that point, rational Republicans (if there are any left) will have the freedom to cut deals with the president, since giving him a little will also give them a little and help their own reelection odds. Meanwhile, Obama himself won't have to worry so much about alienating inconvenient interest groups in his own party.

According to an administration official quoted in the linked article, the big legacy-building initiatives they would likely focus on are resolving the debt crisis, global warming, and immigration. I can see moderate Republicans joining forces with Obama and moderate Dems on the first and third. No way does he make any progress in the second one, and sad as it is I wouldn't even try if I were he.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

According to an administration official quoted in the linked article, the big legacy-building initiatives they would likely focus on are resolving the debt crisis, global warming, and immigration. I can see moderate Republicans joining forces with Obama and moderate Dems on the first and third. No way does he make any progress in the second one, and sad as it is I wouldn't even try if I were he.

Considering that the phrase "sea-level rise" is a [URL="http://hamptonroads.com/2012/06/lawmakers-avoid-buzzwords-climate-change-bills]"left-wing term"[/URL] to be expunged from all use I don't think we're at all close to even talking seriously about the problem, much less solving it.

The semantics dance harkens to the days when "global warming" was commonly uttered. But after conservatives criticized and ridiculed Al Gore and others, "climate change" became the kinder, gentler way to communicate the same thing.

Now it appears that "climate change" and "sea level rise" are being phased out, in Virginia at least, amid political pressure from the far right. Emerging labels include "increased flooding risk," "coastal resiliency" and, of course, "recurrent flooding."

State Del. Chris Stolle, R-Virginia Beach, who insisted on changing the "sea level rise" study in the General Assembly to one on "recurrent flooding," said he wants to get political speech out of the mix altogether.

He said "sea level rise" is a "left-wing term" that conjures up animosities on the right. So why bring it into the equation?

"What people care about is the floodwater coming through their door," Stolle said. "Let's focus on that. Let's study that. So that's what I wanted us to call it."

2+2=4 is political speech. We must replace it with the less controversial 2+2=an egg.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Considering that the phrase "sea-level rise" is a [URL="http://hamptonroads.com/2012/06/lawmakers-avoid-buzzwords-climate-change-bills]"left-wing term"[/URL] to be expunged from all use I don't think we're at all close to even talking seriously about the problem, much less solving it.



2+2=4 is political speech. We must replace it with the less controversial 2+2=an egg.

Mitt Romney can fix that. He's Mr. Fix It.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Maybe they were just making an ironic point about the trustworthiness of "real" news shows?

There are no real news shows anymore. All the major networks cut their news staffs and recycle talking points handed to them by partisans and plants because it's easier. The 24-hour "news" shows are either explicit party propaganda organs like FNC/MSNBC or TMZ-like entertainment networks like CNN. Nobody can run real news anymore because it's expensive to research and difficult to do correctly, and way above the heads of the mass audience. The closest thing there is to an honest, deeply-researched news show is PBS News Hour, and I'll bet its viewership numbers make college hockey look like a ratings juggernaut.

A lot of things in the culture used to be aspirational -- there were news shows and interviews and lectures that were pitched way, way above the average level of intellect and knowledge, and people were expected to want to reach for them and stretch themselves. It was taken for granted that only a small slice of the public was ever going to be capable of a meaningful contribution to public discourse, but the egalitarianism of America was that everybody including the clerk behind the kosher deli stand who read a pocket copy of Moses Maimonides between orders could have the next great idea. That was equality of opportunity.

The Great Dumbing Down was when we stopped respecting people who knew more and had thought more about topics than we. That's what makes the screaming shows that pass for political discussion possible. It's funny, because the people who scream the loudest about the predations of "relativism" don't understand their very presence on those shows is due to the worst excess of relativism: the idea that the market value of somebody's opinion is its truth value.

qft in case anyone skipped over this excellent short essay. I would only correct it by removing the second-to-last word.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

um, Richard Hofstadter won the Pulitzer Prize in 1964 for his book Anti-Intellectualism in American Life....it's a time-honored tradition, not something all that "new."

I'd argue that it's cyclical; it feeds on economic insecurity.

You can see it on uscho. 5 years ago, there were political flamefests, but there were also real discussions. The proportion of political threads that were more than a pointless circle jerk was a bit greater than today.

Or I'm just older and grouchier. Or both.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'd argue that it's cyclical; it feeds on economic insecurity.

You can see it on uscho. 5 years ago, there were political flamefests, but there were also real discussions. The proportion of political threads that were more than a pointless circle jerk was a bit greater than today.

Or I'm just older and grouchier. Or both.

There are still real discussions. I wouldn't get too nostalgic about the good ol' days of USCHO, when we had the NAPALM folks trolling every thread.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

There are still real discussions. I wouldn't get too nostalgic about the good ol' days of USCHO, when we had the NAPALM folks trolling every thread.

It was always like this? I was trying to pay uscho a compliment (of sorts)

That said, obviously backhanded compliments don't make things better. Maybe time for another hiatus?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

You mean women who are voting for the freedom to choose their meds over taking a chance at the government saying "no meds for you"? You like someone telling you what you can and cannot have, eh? It's a perfect scenario for brainless people.

No I dont...I want people to bud out of my life unless they want me budding into theirs. I am just refuting your BS opinion that the Right thinks for themselves while the Liberals follow groupthink. All politics is groupthink...if you think for yourself your caucus leaves you behind. The Right is just as indoctrinated as the Left and you are either blind or mentally handicapped if you can't see that. The fact that conservatives supported Dubya, who was anything but a conservative, pretty much proves that fact.

As long as these are the two options we have (the GOP and the Dems) this country is screwed.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

It was always like this? I was trying to pay uscho a compliment (of sorts)

That said, obviously backhanded compliments don't make things better. Maybe time for another hiatus?

I think it was always like this, although the sense of humor seems to go by lunar cycles or something. Traditionally, election years have been when people are most That's Not Funny. We've also had an influx of new political posters over the last year who are, how shall I put it?, very black and white in their thinking. The good part of that it that the median age of political fights has dropped back below 75. The bad part of it is that "young" is just the name we give to people who haven't realized they're also idiots.