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Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
there are very few liberals left in the Democratic party these days, they've all either retired or been expelled for not adhering to the appropriate orthodoxies. Bill Clinton today would be too right-wing to have much influence in today's party...notice how he's been muzzled since the last time he spoke, when he had the temerity actually to say something sensible? JFK might actually fit better in today's "moderate Republican" (a/k/a RINO) camp! :eek:

though I suppose I'm just being old-fashioned, since my understanding of "liberal" is based on the intellectual tradition of Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson, and Martin Luther King, Jr. of individual liberty and (mostly) free markets (with appropriate adjustments for "free riders" and the "problem of the commons"). Clinton's greatest accomplishments were NAFTA and welfare reform, straight up the middle for a liberal. :)

perhaps I'm just like any other jilted spouse? the party I once loved tossed me aside for someone else. :( Democrats today don't care much about individual liberty, they are all about government compulsion instead. They don't care about free markets any longer, everything has to be regulated.

Of course I disparage Democrats for betraying what used to be their core principles. why would that surprise you? As J.R. Houseman used to say, "they earned it."

Conservatives feel the same way about today's Republican party: Republicans support way too much crony capitalism for any conservative to be comfortable with them, either.

I'm bereft, alone in the center, as each party engages in a race to see which can become more extreme, the "progressives" on the left, or the radicals on the right.

There aren't many candidates around who merit support either from conservatives or from liberals. that's a key reason why party affiliation has been declining, and "independents" have been increasing in number. The professional politician has taken over in both parties, and operates a continuous fund-raising campaign in a few key core constituencies. If you aren't an extremist, you don't agitate, and you don't donate, and so neither party has any use for you!
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Well said.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

5mn_Major said:
Any fact based evidence of this whatsoever?
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Democratic primary, Connnecticut Senate race, 2006.


Bart Stupak retirement, 2010.

Half a dozen others whose name I can't recall, and I don't care enough to look up.



The major point is that politics have become so ultra-professionalized that today, it's all about the money. If you have a "special interest" about which you care passionately, you will find yourself really popular with the professional 24/7 fundraising teams and have all sorts of "access" and have your view 'represented.' Hence the polarization we see today, the left is more leftward than ever, the right is more rightward than ever, and the swings from one side to the other become more pronounced as the general populace realizes that they don't like one side very much and so they want to give the other side a chance, only to find that they don't like the other side very much either.

Democrats no longer care about liberals, they are all aswoon over progressives now instead. Career Republicans don't really care very much about conservatives either; except that the Tea Party threatened to kneecap them with a third-party movement first before embarking on a partial takeover instead. Now the Republican party is a bit schizophrenic as a result.


It is a bit liberating not to have to engage in mind-games to defend egregious blunders, having no affiliation to either side...:)
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

5mn_Major said:
Any fact based evidence of this whatsoever?
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He doesn't need evidence. He believes in Natural Law theory. :p

It always cracks me up when guys try to cram current politics into ideologies that are 40 years old and when they find a lack of fit they say politics has moved either "left" or "right." The Dems haven't moved left and the GOP hasn't moved right. Both parties have moved on from the 70's. LBJ's world is dead, Reagan's world is dead. None of that old rhetoric means anything any more. But people who are frozen in time keep relating the world back to themselves when they first formed their political opinions. And somehow they find the world lacking. :D The real answer is their political bromides are no longer relevant.
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Kepler said:
The real answer is their political bromides are no longer relevant.
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wow, so anyone who disagrees with you is an outdated, out-of-touch dinosaur! brilliant rationalization! you can now comfortably ignore anything that might contradict your own insular world view.

I suppose you think your smugness and affected sense of superiority are appealing?

If you were really secure you wouldn't need to be so dismissive, you know....
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
wow, so anyone who disagrees with you is an outdated, out-of-touch dinosaur! brilliant rationalization! you can now comfortably ignore anything that might contradict your own insular world view.

I suppose you think your smugness and affected sense of superiority are appealing?

If you were really secure you wouldn't need to be so dismissive, you know....
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I'm pretty sure he's called me an out-dated, out of touch dinosaur a number of times over the years, though not with those exact words. :)
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Now here is an interesting development in the old-fashioned, "gee, I didn't know that" sense of the word....

For weeks now, Democrats have been dropping out of the Democratic convention .... Most have offered polite excuses for their absences, though it happens that nearly everyone on the list is locked in tight re-election races. ...

Senators who have sent regrets include Missouri's Claire McCaskill and Montana's Jon Tester. House members include Jim Matheson of Utah; John Barrow of Georgia; Blue Dog Henry Cuellar of Texas; Mark Critz of Pennsylvania; Betty Sutton of Ohio; Stephen Lynch and Richard Neal of Massachusetts; and Kathy Hochul and Bill Owens, who represent districts in upstate New York.

Democrats Larry Kissell and Mike McIntyre are both skipping Charlotte, despite serving as House members from . . . North Carolina. And a West Virginia governor (Earl Ray Tomblin), a senator (Joe Manchin) and a House representative (Nick Rahall) all confirmed around the same time that they were [not attending the convention either]. All three are up for re-election this fall in a state where 40% of Democratic primary voters earlier this year pulled the lever for a felon over President Obama.
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The rest of the article engages in speculation as to why this is so.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

mookie1995 said:
two weeks old link???? :) and a repeat post at that
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You prefer a link from today? Okay.

WASHINGTON — Rep. Joe Walsh, R-Ill., announced Thursday he will skip the Republican National Convention in Tampa this August and challenged Democratic rival Tammy Duckworth to not go to her party convention in Charlotte — where she is the vice-chair of the Rules Committee. Duckworth’s campaign Thursday confirmed she will attend the convention.

Walsh is among a group of House members in tough races — in both parties — opting out of the conventions. Walsh instead said in a statement he will host events in the district during the August convention — and asked Duckworth to hold joint events with him. Duckworth has declined Walsh’s overtures for joint events, maintaining her own campaign schedule.
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It is rather perplexing that it wasn't a story that was very "interesting" two weeks ago when it was Republicans, but became very "interesting" when it was a story about Democrats...
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Craig P. said:
Do you disagree with him that a successful person did not, in and of themselves, build the roads and bridges? It appears to be a problem with an unclear antecedent where you think "that" is the successful enterprise and I think "that" is the infrastructure that was a significant part of the foundation of the successful enterprise.
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First we had to define "IS". Then SCOTUS had to define "TAX". Now we have to define "THAT".

Anyone that once thought Obama was a socialist before that speech will clearly see the light and see what a capitalist he really is. :rolleyes:

"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. " Isn't that what the Bolsheviks said just before they confiscated all the businesses and farms? Yes, these words are from someone with great disdain for capitalism.
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
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Knowing his hatred for the business class I completely think he means 'business' when he says "that". Otherwise, is he implying that if you've got a business that you did not build the roads and bridges? If his point was that 'we all do these things together', then he should have acknowledged that businesses did indeed help "build that". But when he follows up with "sombody ELSE made that happen" he absolutely is implying that businesses do not help build roads and bridges. "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." Does he not know who "invested" in roads? You and I know the taxpayer invested in roads. The rich capitalists and the working class both. Now, if you were going to gin up a little class warfare, you might try to imply that only the working class paid for the roads while the upper class reaps all the benefit.

This is classic, "Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." Wasn't the internet created so universities and government agencies could better communicate with each other? According to Obama it was just a big, get rich scheme the gov't created for the capitalists. Yeah, and NASA was created so someone could sell TANG.

Anyways, I'm sure I'mthe one that took him out of context. That's because the video I saw of the speech did not show the entire thing. It stop just before Obama thrust his fist in the air and shouted "Workers of the World Unite".
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Rolling Stone had a recent article in which it stated the grass roots volunteer force Obama had 4 years ago has measuably dwindled. I am lazy and won't look it up. :)
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

so Zimbabwe has more government relative to business than anywhere else in the world these days, and that's somehow supposed to be an example of something? what did I miss again? I forgot....
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

What's wrong with this picture??

12_07_19_foodstamps.jpg
 
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