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Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

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ScoobyDoo said:
How the **** do they do that with all them JOB CREATOR KILLING taxes????????
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It is actually fairly simple.... Since the conservatives took over they have fully embraced their own natural resources (coal and oil and gold), they have been lowering corporate taxes (they have ZERO - repeate ZERO capital gains taxes). Even though they still have higher taxes overall than the US they are still lower than when the libtards were in power. And we all know that when you lower taxes for everyone it equates to growth.... And it doesn't hurt that O man has royally ****ed our society and the future of our countries economy and thus our decline has expedited their passage of us. They are even talking about returning to a privet health system because the public system does not work.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
Obama seems to think that association through government is the only form of social organization that exists. The idea of voluntary association seems foreign to him; everything is compulsion and only compulsion to him. "If people aren't forced to do it then it won't get done." That is not part of the American tradition in which many of us were raised. Many of us belong to civic associations that watch out for people in the community more effectively than any government program ever possibly can.
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This is a bit extreme, considering Obama's history before politics (teaching adult literacy at churches in southside Chicago, community organizing stuff, etc).

I think it's fair to say that Obama sees a role for civic associations. The difference is that he'd describe them as useful to fill in gaps left open by government (which will always exist), as opposed to the other way 'round (government should be extended to areas that can't be well served by self-organizing civic association).
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Here's the full quote

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
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[emphasis added]

That's very different than saying "you only were able to build that due to what other people had built before you."
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Kepler said:
I don't think there's anybody out there who actually believes what they're saying about Obama's quote, but it fits their pre-fab narrative about any Dem so throw it out there and hope it sticks.
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I think there are a lot (and some of them quite intelligent) who believe it, in part because (as you say) it fits a preconceived notion of what Obama is and what he wants.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
Here's the full quote

[emphasis added]

That's very different than saying "you only were able to build that due to what other people had built before you."
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Do you disagree with him that a successful person did not, in and of themselves, build the roads and bridges? It appears to be a problem with an unclear antecedent where you think "that" is the successful enterprise and I think "that" is the infrastructure that was a significant part of the foundation of the successful enterprise.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Craig P. said:
I think there are a lot (and some of them quite intelligent) who believe it, in part because (as you say) it fits a preconceived notion of what Obama is and what he wants.
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Where do you think these so-called "pre-conceived" notions came from? Perhaps from Obama's own lips?

Remember the "we have to spread the wealth around" comment to Joe the Plumber in 2008?


Sure, let's solve income inequality "problem" by making everyone poor! :p


Sorry, I'm just "bitterly clinging to my guns and my religion" (except I don't own a gun and while spiritual am not devotional....)
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Craig P. said:
Do you disagree with him that a successful person did not, in and of themselves, build the roads and bridges? It appears to be a problem with an unclear antecedent where you think "that" is the successful enterprise and I think "that" is the infrastructure that was a significant part of the foundation of the successful enterprise.
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and where did the money originate from which the bridges and roads were built? and who actually designed the roads, graded the dirt, poured the concrete?

m, private business, perhaps?

you can pretend it was an unclear antecedent, someone else can say it was a revealing moment of candor, whatever the case, it denigrates hard work and individual effort.

On top of that, the subtext is that, since you didn't build "that" you have no right to complain when we threaten to take "that" away from you if you don't do what we say you should do....


for some reason I am reminded of The Picture of Dorain Gray....
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
and where did the money originate from which the bridges and roads were built? and who actually designed the roads, graded the dirt, poured the concrete? um, private business, perhaps?

you can pretend it was an unclear antecedent, someone else can say it was a revealing moment of candor, whatever the case, it denigrates hard work and individual effort.
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It denigrates hard work and individual effort to say that a company like Apple probably isn't going to happen if it were started in Zimbabwe?

Really? Are we that dense that we don't understand what was being said?

I have yet to see a nation create wealth for everyone while at the same time collect zero taxes. It's never been done.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Craig P. said:
Do you disagree with him that a successful person did not, in and of themselves, build the roads and bridges? It appears to be a problem with an unclear antecedent where you think "that" is the successful enterprise and I think "that" is the infrastructure that was a significant part of the foundation of the successful enterprise.
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Of course they did. Just like Jerry Yang, Larry Page and Mark Zuckerberg invented the Internet.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

joecct said:
If Romney releases his stuff shouldn't Obama unseal his?
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Absolutely. If Romney finally releases his tax returns, Obama should do likewise.

Oh wait, he already has.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Romney should release his tax returns, the die has been cast. But let's not kid ourselves that this has anything to do with better government. These document dumps give oppo research types and the MSM the opportunity to scrounge around and find something that furthers the "out of touch" "super rich , therefore probably a crook" WH narrative. The returns will provide a cornucopia of ignorant tongue wagging by low information voters. "How dare Romney be rich and successful. Hey babe, while you're up, get me another Iron City and some more Cheetos, will ya?"

Meanwhile, the Obama transcripts remain as closely guarded as the recipe to McDonald's secret sauce.

I wish we could go back to the days when politicians didn't think they had to release tax returns. It's all just gossipy, nosey, voyeuristic crapola. WFB's brother, James, was a senator from New York and he refused to release his returns. He pointed out that the editors of the NYT, particularly the editorial page, are at least as powerful as any single senator and we never see their returns.
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

joecct said:
If Romney releases his stuff shouldn't Obama unseal his?
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Aren't they a little old to be playing "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"? They should probably leave that to the experts like Anthony Weiner.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

On one hand, this is not a private hiring decision. If it wants, the public (or some substantial portion thereof) can decide that it needs to know a candidate's favorite color.

On the other, this *is* all about oppo. And we'll get our proof when Romney does provide them and some Dem spokesperson uses it as evidence that the top rate should be raised (so that wealthy folks have even more reason to evade it?), rather than evidence of the need to simplify the tax code.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

amherstblackbear said:
and some Dem spokesperson uses it as evidence that the top rate should be raised (so that wealthy folks have even more reason to evade it?)
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I have never understood this line of reasoning. It's like saying libraries shouldn't have late fines because then people will be less likely to return overdue books.

The solution to tax evasion isn't lowering taxes, it's prosecuting tax evasion.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

zeusobama.jpg


seriousobamacat.jpg
 
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