Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Perhaps when they're paying something more than the lowest marginal rates they've seen in the last century or so? A return to the Clinton-era rates would be a nice show of good faith that they agree they "gotta pay" at least something. I don't recall the wealthy hurting all that much in the 90's...

IIRC, the market was going up and the bond market had a decent rate of return. We don't have either right now.

I would redo the code (again!), kill the deductions and lower the rates. Most of the middle class does not have the deductions or the army of accountants and lawyers to massage the code that the well to do have. So, make everyone file single, give them a $45,000 flat deduction, and tax the rest at some rate or rates. Oh yeah, no more "above or below the line" deduction like we have for health insurance. It all comes out of the $45K.

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I would imagine you get back what you're paying or less.

If thats the case I don't see how the investment pays off. Solar costs have really dropped, less than a buck a watt at this point. So its close but not sure it works quite yet. I've thought about doing it, I have solar hot water in my house and I built a shop with home built solar water panel(10 by 15) that helps heat the shop. So I like tinkering with that stuff but not sure joe homeowner can justify it without tax credits.

Here are 2 good sites for solar

www.builditsolar.com

www.americansolartechnics.com

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

IIRC, the market was going up and the bond market had a decent rate of return. We don't have either right now.

I would redo the code (again!), kill the deductions and lower the rates. Most of the middle class does not have the deductions or the army of accountants and lawyers to massage the code that the well to do have. So, make everyone file single, give them a $45,000 flat deduction, and tax the rest at some rate or rates. Oh yeah, no more "above or below the line" deduction like we have for health insurance. It all comes out of the $45K.

whoa whoa whoa!!! easy cowboy.

increase the marginal rate on $750,000 taxable.
increase then that marginal rate on $2,000,000 taxable.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

If thats the case I don't see how the investment pays off. Solar costs have really dropped, less than a buck a watt at this point. So its close but not sure it works quite yet. I've thought about doing it, I have solar hot water in my house and I built a shop with home built solar water panel(10 by 15) that helps heat the shop. So I like tinkering with that stuff but not sure joe homeowner can justify it without tax credits.

Here are 2 good sites for solar

www.builditsolar.com

www.americansolartechnics.com

I can't find it now but the guy who did it and sent the power back to the power company came out ahead. Sounds like a no brainer to me but maybe it was more liberal propaganda, who knows?

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I can't find it now but the guy who did it and sent the power back to the power company came out ahead. Sounds like a no brainer to me but maybe it was more liberal propaganda, who knows?

Maybe with subsidies and tax credits but not straight up. If it was, I have a 15 by 34 roof on my shop just waiting for the day it works, built it with a southern orientation just for that day.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

whoa whoa whoa!!! easy cowboy.

increase the marginal rate on $750,000 taxable.
increase then that marginal rate on $2,000,000 taxable.

Four rates starting at 0 to give everyone skin in the game. No exemptions or deductions. All income treated exactly the same:

5% for 0-50k / 25% for 50k-750k / 50% for 750k-2M / 75% for over 2M

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Four rates starting at 0 to give everyone skin in the game. No exemptions or deductions. All income treated exactly the same:

5% for 0-50k / 25% for 50k-750k / 50% for 750k-2M / 75% for over 2M

5% for 0-70k / 20% for 70k-250k / 35% for 250k-2M / 42.5% for over 2M

250k is middle class, not rich.
69k is working poor.
anything over 50% is penal and takes away incentive. 42.5% is fine for a top marginal rate.

long gone are the times of "1 for you 19 for me".

 

[Bill]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Our tax system in a nutshell:

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...-system-of-taxation-and-distribution_07252012

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

We did build this! Well...kind of. Sort of. OK, not really.

Ball Office Products hosted the “We Did Build This” event in Richmond, Virginia. The company received a loan of $635,000 through the Small Business Administration in 2012, according to USASpending.gov. The company was also awarded a lucrative $52,525 contract with the General Services Administration just a year after its founding.

Midwest Tapes, a media distributor of Holland, Ohio, was showcased at a local event and received stimulus funds under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. Midwest Tapes has been contracted by the Department of Defense since 2008, earning a cumulative $13,659.

Columbus Truck and Equipment was featured in a neighboring event and has received $6,643 in contracts with the Department of Defense.

Cranston Material Handling Equipment Corporation, the owner of which spoke Wednesday morning at a campaign event in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, has reaped a total of $61,729 in contracts with the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs since 2007.

Systems Engineering Co.The owner of Systems Engineering has received a total of $180,200 in DOD contracts, as recently as last year.

Larson Group, which sent its owner to the local Romney event in Missouri, was awarded $3,845 in stimulus funds.

Brady Industries in Las Vegas has received $54,425 in contracts with Veterans Affairs since 2009.

Pennsylvania business PRL Industries Inc. received a $167,847 contract through the Department of Homeland Security for ship and boat propulsion components for the U.S. Coast Guard in August 2008. Janis Herschkowitz, who spoke on behalf of PRL, Inc. used to be a director of the National Consumer Cooperative Bank, which, defined in Herschkowitz’ own words, was created by Congress “to meet personal, social or business needs, especially in low- and moderate-income communities by forming cooperatives.”

An Iowa event featured Competitive Edge, Inc. which was contracted by Veterans Affairs for $3,543 to make informational refrigerator magnets.

J & W Cycles of Missouri was awarded $25,808 in contracts from the DOD and Department of Interior.

Total Resource, featured in a Sparks, Nevada campaign event, has been a federal contractor since 2010, and received a $11,200 contract from the DOD in 2009.

Applegate Insulation, which hosted one of the events in Michigan, benefited from an energy saving federal tax credit worth 30 percent of the installation project, up to $1,500.

Home Instead Senior Care supported Romney in Roanoke, Virginia, even though home health care companies receive 75 percent of their funding from public programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Home Instead franchises in Virginia have received at least $3,613,549 in federal funding through the Department of Veterans Affairs since 2008. Chris Head, who represented Home Instead at the event, has previously lamented the low Medicaid reimbursement rates in Virginia and told the Roanoke Times that he wished state funding had helped save the now-defunct local Mill Mountain Theatre.

Ed Nagle of Nagle Trucking in Ohio also took issue with Obama’s speech, which mentioned roads and bridges as examples of essential government support. But less than a year ago, Nagle protested an idea to privatize the Ohio Turnpike, noting that the privatized Indiana toll road “has diminished in its quality and it’s become a lot more expensive.”

$3500 for refrigerator magnets? They must have been awesome magnets.

Good thing all these small business owners were able to run their businesses with no help from the government.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

We did build this! Well...kind of. Sort of..

dude.... if there is ever a uscho movie, sarah silverman and her role in school of rock nails you... she gets the role!

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

dude.... if there is ever a uscho movie, sarah silverman and her role in school of rock nails you... she gets the role!

Go ahead and attack the messenger, but the message remains the same.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

We did build this! Well...kind of. Sort of. OK, not really.



$3500 for refrigerator magnets? They must have been awesome magnets.

Good thing all these small business owners were able to run their businesses with no help from the government.

Except they sold products to the government... THat's not even the same thing. Pretty terrible article.

 

[mookie1995]

Except they sold products to the government... THat's not even the same thing. Pretty terrible article.

Message remains the same....

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Right.

You should have stopped there. I said "most people who are of working age and who are employable can". That doesn't mean "old people with no money" or "disabled people who can't do anything for themselves except type wordy paragraphs painting a picture of endless helplessness and dependence on a college message board".

Before all these handouts from strangers paying taxes existed, these people would have been taken care of by their families (or kicked out of the house and left to die if the families didn't like them). Things were simpler and much more efficient back then.

And I still don't get why you can't work. You could certainly be an editor of any number of websites/publishers. You could write online content somewhere and monetize it. You could even be one of those people that takes online surveys and gets paid to do it.

But no, clearly you can't pursue any of these things because apparently your time is better spent telling us why people can't do anything themselves.

 

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Our tax system in a nutshell:

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...-system-of-taxation-and-distribution_07252012

Why do you hate Adam Smith, the founder of modern capitalism?

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Except they sold products to the government... THat's not even the same thing. Pretty terrible article.

If they were the rugged individualists they pretend to be, they would have refused that $3500 contract for refrigerator magnets or the six figure Pentagon deal. After all, that's dirty government money. Ewwww! And they wouldn't have gone near the stimulus funds! Those came from Uncle Joe himself! Why take a six-figure loan from the government when I'm sure they could have gotten one at just as good a rate from a bank with good, clean private money instead of that filthy stuff from the government. It is fitting for someone to bill Medicare for over $3,600,000 and complain that the government is involved. Gotta keep the government out of Medicare! But my favorite is that he wanted to use grimy public funds to save a favorite theater that is now closed. My goodness, why didn't his fellow Captains of Industry step up and use their own money to save the theater? Oh right...that's the government's job.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

And I still don't get why you can't work. You could certainly be an editor of any number of websites/publishers. You could write online content somewhere and monetize it. You could even be one of those people that takes online surveys and gets paid to do it.

But no, clearly you can't pursue any of these things because apparently your time is better spent telling us why people can't do anything themselves.

I can't work because I get debilitating headaches just about every day that send me to bed where I curl up in a fetal position and hope it goes away. The rehab expert from the State of Maine said she wouldn't be able to place me in a job and an employment expert testified at my hearing that there was no way I could hold down any type of employment. Aside from being unable to work, there's the minor inconvenience of the tumor that still resides in my brain and would be more than enough to scare away any potential employers. The judge in my case is a staunch conservative who was appointed by Bush and is on the list of "non-paying" judges because he only approves 43% of the Social Security cases that come before him - as opposed to the other five judges in the Portland office who have a record of approving 85% of the cases they hear. But no, I'm sure you know better than all of them. You have vastly more knowledge of my case based on the hours we have spent together, the fact that you've read my file, seen my MRI and other medical records, know my work and educational history and just plain know more than the head of the State of Maine Rehabilitation Services and a federal judge. I can't imagine what I was thinking.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

And I still don't get why you can't work.

Don't you think calling out Priceless of all posters on this issue is stooping a bit?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

If they were the rugged individualists they pretend to be, they would have refused that $3500 contract for refrigerator magnets or the six figure Pentagon deal. After all, that's dirty government money. Ewwww! And they wouldn't have gone near the stimulus funds! Those came from Uncle Joe himself! Why take a six-figure loan from the government when I'm sure they could have gotten one at just as good a rate from a bank with good, clean private money instead of that filthy stuff from the government. It is fitting for someone to bill Medicare for over $3,600,000 and complain that the government is involved. Gotta keep the government out of Medicare! But my favorite is that he wanted to use grimy public funds to save a favorite theater that is now closed. My goodness, why didn't his fellow Captains of Industry step up and use their own money to save the theater? Oh right...that's the government's job.

You don't see this entire argument as a bit farcical? Come on Priceless. You're going to have to do better than that.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I thought the following passage from a longer article was a balanced, even-handed view of what's at stake this November, especially the part about the Democratic party actually believing that they have a moral claim to [redacted].

Any history of the Democratic Party in the 20th century will recognize its roots in the American labor movement. The party was defined by the names of those unions. The United Mine Workers. The United Auto Workers. The Brotherhoods of Teamsters and Railroad Workers. Consider what those names represented: Both Democrats and Republicans were rooted in the private economy. Unionized workers knew then that this private economy was where they made their living. The arguments were over dividing the productive fruits of that economy. That was your father's Democratic Party.

From the 1960s onward, the professional Democratic Party began to lose its relationship with the private economy. Democratic politicians drew closer to a rising public-sector union movement and its campaign financing, while the private unions declined. This meant the party itself was slowly disconnecting from the machinery of the private economy and becoming part of a rising parallel economy, the public economy of government.

There was one other big event that convinced Democrats that their public economy was equal to or better than the private economy. It has to do with the Democratic Party's moral identity. After JFK's assassination, Lyndon Johnson passed the building blocks of the Great Society, notably Medicare and Medicaid. But most importantly came the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The legislative events of that period (no matter that they passed with bipartisan votes) convinced the Democratic Party once and for all of government's moral efficacy. Public spending, conclusively, was now a public good.

Today the private and public economies are in head-to-head competition for the nation's wealth—with the private economy calling that wealth capital or income, and the public economy calling it tax revenue and making moral claims for spending tax revenue.

Until recently and except for the Reagan years, the Republican Party has largely been a confused onlooker, uncertain how to embrace the private economy. In the 1990s, the party embraced the private sector mainly as a source of contributions via K Street lobbyists. In short, crony capitalism.

With the Obama administration, the tensions between the country's two economies clarified. The $831 billion spending bill in 2009 was intended to stimulate hiring of public-sector workforces but also among the satellite businesses that are subsidiaries of the public economy. Barack Obama's routine use of the traditional private-economy term "investment"—in energy, education and such—is the public economy claiming capital for its needs.

President Obama is telling the private economy it must subordinate itself to the public economy's moral efficacy. The passage in 2010 of the Affordable Care Act, with no Republican support, was justified as a 1960s-type act of moral necessity. The private economy, in his view, can't compete on that basis.

In the November 2010 elections, the private economy pushed back. Two years into the financial crisis and amid tea-party insurgencies, Democrats were swept out of office at every level of government.

Mr. Henninger then proceeds to quote a statistic to show the economic consequences of the choice we face:

For about 40 years before 2008, spending as a percentage of GDP was around 20%. In 2009, it rose to 25% and has remained at 24% of GDP. This isn't just spending data. These numbers are a proxy for the standoff between the public economy and the private economy.

From my own perspective, at one time there was a symbiotic relationship between the private economy and the government economy, with which many people across all political stripes probably would agree. Since 2009, the relationship has been changing from symbiotic to parasitic, and the question for me is, will we restore the balance needed between parasite and host so that we again can work toward symbiosis? or has the parasite weakened the host to such an extent that the host lacks the strength and will power it needs to reassert this proper balance?

Note that I am not saying that government is bad or evil; we all need some government. Neither am I romanticizing it, the way some do. It is merely another institution staffed by fallible human beings, no better nor no worse than plenty of other institutions also staffed by fallible human beings.

It is merely, how much is good for us and when is too much so unhealthy that we need to push back?