Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

The great thing about this post is that Fresh probably truly believes that the words "progressive" and "ambitious" are mutually exclusive.

No, you and I often agree; though you say "magenta" when I say "reddish purple."


There's more than one kind of ambition. Some people like to succeed in team sports, some people excel in individual sports. Very different personality and mind-set; yet ambition underlies both.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

No, you and I often agree; though you say "magenta" when I say "reddish purple."


There's more than one kind of ambition. Some people like to succeed in team sports, some people excel in individual sports. Very different personality and mind-set; yet ambition underlies both.

Did I misread your post? Because it really sounded like you were saying that ambitious people must be frustrated by being surrounded by progressives. Which makes it sound like "ambitious people" are, by definition, not progressives.

You're right, we do agree relatively often, but you also have this habit of slipping really ... strange... ideas into otherwise totally reasonable posts.

You are also right that I like to be contrary. My dad has been using that word to describe me for literally as long as I have been speaking.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

The great thing about this post is that Fresh probably truly believes that the words "progressive" and "ambitious" are mutually exclusive. Of course, now that I have said something, he'll tell me how I took his words out of context.

Let's give him half credit. Liberals are ambitious for everyone. Conservatives are ambitious only for themselves.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Did I misread your post? Because it really sounded like you were saying that ambitious people must be frustrated by being surrounded by progressives. Which makes it sound like "ambitious people" are, by definition, not progressives.

You're right, we do agree relatively often, but you also have this habit of slipping really ... strange... ideas into otherwise totally reasonable posts.

If you live in a deep blue state, the only outlets for your ambition are politics, or crime, and often both at the same time. "Conventional" business ambition is generally thwarted. 37 permits with 18 agencies to build a parking lot is not a joke. it happened here.


and it seems less that my ideas are strange; it is more my articulation that is often amiss. I am not as facile with 21st century colloquial American English as I would need to be were I in sales, marketing, or politics. I notice I often use archaic formulations when slang is more appropriate....at least I am trying to learn how to adapt!

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Liberals are ambitious for [ego gratification]. Conservatives are ambitious [for themselves, their employees, their families, and their communities, but NOT for their government overlords].

Funny how often you talk in code. Thanks for shipping me the decoder ring!

 

[TimP]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

If you live in a deep blue state, the only outlets for your ambition are politics, or crime, and often both at the same time. "Conventional" business ambition is generally thwarted.

Epic Fail. Academia, law, medicine, the sciences are all thriving in deep blue states. Granted, doctors can be grreedy selfish b*****ds, but there are plenty of ways to be successful in a blue state without being a politician or a criminal.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Funny how often you talk in code. Thanks for shipping me the decoder ring!

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine? A crummy commercial? Son of a b*tch."

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

If you live in a deep blue state, the only outlets for your ambition are politics, or crime, and often both at the same time. "Conventional" business ambition is generally thwarted. 37 permits with 18 agencies to build a parking lot is not a joke. it happened here.

Could you define what "ambition" means in whatever world you live in? Conventional would be a bonus.

 

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

You'd be surprised at how many do. The Catholic Church has stated (indirectly heard through teachers at parochial schools) that evolution is OK to teach. Are you still hung up on Scopes?

Psst. Catholics are split pretty much 50/50 politically. We're not talking about them when we talk about the religious right.

 

[duper]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

If you live in a deep blue state, the only outlets for your ambition are politics, or crime, and often both at the same time. "Conventional" business ambition is generally thwarted. 37 permits with 18 agencies to build a parking lot is not a joke. it happened here.


and it seems less that my ideas are strange; it is more my articulation that is often amiss. I am not as facile with 21st century colloquial American English as I would need to be were I in sales, marketing, or politics. I notice I often use archaic formulations when slang is more appropriate....at least I am trying to learn how to adapt!

I still disagree about the ambition thing. It is only your point of view, and it is a highly disputable one. Doesn't make it "wrong," as opinions are, by definition, not wrong, but there it is...

As for the way you make your points, I think you are very clear and concise in the way you present yourself. I also think that sometimes you believe your opinions so fervently that when someone disagrees with you, you assume that they have misunderstood you. Just a thought.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Psst. Catholics are split pretty much 50/50 politically. We're not talking about them when we talk about the religious right.

I was thinking the same thing. I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic high school.

In high school, I was taught sex ed (by a nun, no less - go ahead joke away ), evolution, physics, chemistry, Latin and religion amongst many other college prep subjects. I don't remember ever covering creationism in high school and remember it as a "bible story" growing up.

I do remember seeing a video that was anti-abortion though, but overall, that was one of the only socially conservative indoctrinations that I can remember from childhood.

We had a very obviously gay music director at my church for many years. Don't think that's happening even now at too many evangelical strongholds.

Catholics are definitely not the religious right even if the church itself is to the right on many issues.


I am a fully recovered Catholic btw - for any that are concerned.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I was thinking the same thing. I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic high school.

In high school, I was taught sex ed (by a nun, no less - go ahead joke away ), evolution, physics, chemistry, Latin and religion amongst many other college prep subjects. I don't remember ever covering creationism in high school and remember it as a "bible story" growing up.

I do remember seeing a video that was anti-abortion though, but overall, that was one of the only socially conservative indoctrinations that I can remember from childhood.

We had a very obviously gay music director at my church for many years. Don't think that's happening even now at too many evangelical strongholds.

Catholics are definitely not the religious right even if the church itself is to the right on many issues.

I'm a Presbyterian. But one of my majors was history, and it's unarguable that The Church is the greatest institution in the history of man. Mistakes? Plenty. But they got the big stuff right. Like electing a relatively unknown Polish cardinal as Pope. I'm not certain, but you might have to go back to the Babylonian Captivity to find a non Italian Pope. A Pope who pushed the crumbling edifice of European Communism into the ash can of history.

Claire Sterling in her book "The Time of the Assassin" makes it clear what John Paul did. He told Moscow that if it did in Poland what it had done in Czechoslovakia and Hungary, he would lay down the Crown of St. Peter, return to his country (the most Catholic on earth) and lead his people against them. There was very serious doubt that Polish army officers would grease the treads of their tanks with the blood of Polish civilians (the two militaries were fully integrated).

Brezhnev turned to Yuri Andropov (head of the KGB) and asked, in effect, "can no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" Next thing you know, Ali Ajca is in St. Peter's square shooting the Holy Father. Incidentally, the guy who carried that message from the Pope to Moscow was Archbishop Marchinkas (from Chicago). And even though he later was evidently up his his lips in Vatican Bank skullduggery, his service to the Pope was remembered, and he didn't have to walk the plank.

John Paul II was the straw that broke the camel's back of European Communism. And the Church put him there.

I remember with jealousy the kids from St. Giles walking past the windows of my school on Holy Days of Obligation---apparantly to have their sleds blessed as they slid down the hill in Taylor park. There is a sort of cultural mind set with the Church. For instance, how many mom and pop restaurants still offer clam chowder on Fridays, even though that deal has been gone for years? I had a good buddy on the basketball team in h.s. who crossed himself before free throws. He denied (with zero credibility) that he was asking the Diety to make 'em good. I suspect that on the issue of abortion, like so many others, American Catholics have a range of opinions. And, more importantly, a range of actions. Your opinion on abortion may change if it's your daughter who's pregnant.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

John Paul II was the straw that broke the camel's back of European Communism. And the Church put him there.

If JP2 was the straw, I guess that makes Walesa the camel. And secular unions put him there.

But I guess the straw should get all the credit....

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

If JP2 was the straw, I guess that makes Walesa the camel. And secular unions put him there.

But I guess the straw should get all the credit....

Walesa was Polish right? And the Solidarity movement was born in Poland, Right? And John Paul warned 'em about what would happen if the Soviets sent their tanks into Poland like they did to Czechoslovakia after they signed the Treaty of Brataslava. I think it's fair to say the existence of a Polish Pope gave some hope and inspiration to those people, don't you think?

Why are you so worried about me "failing" to give sufficient credit to Mr. Walesa? Or the unions? Besides, Walesa is a slightly different guy than, say, Jimmy Hoffa or other union goons. The election of a Polish Pope was a once in a millenium event. And the Church's way of putting European Communism in its crosshairs. Brave political leaders are a somewhat more frequent occurrence. Naturally, we should all be grateful to SEIU for the fall of European Communism. Can't you libstains EVER give it a rest?

All union leaders are about the same. Right? Lech Walesa, Tony Boyle--hard to tell 'em apart. Your analysis of my "straw that broke the camel's back" analogy is laughably wrong.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Your opinion on abortion may change if it's your daughter who's pregnant.

My opinion, or are you speaking figuratively?

Theoretically, I can agree with something and it can still be indoctrination.

You wanna know what I remember from that video? It actually said that collagen from aborted babies may be in our shampoo. It said that if the label didn't specifically say "animal" collagen, then it was probably a fetus.

I mean, w-t-f? You know what that can do to a 15 year old in the age before the internet where you can at least look this stuff up?

To me, that's inexcusable even if the end could justify the means.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

My opinion, or are you speaking figuratively?

Theoretically, I can agree with something and it can still be indoctrination.

You wanna know what I remember from that video? It actually said that collagen from aborted babies may be in our shampoo. It said that if the label didn't specifically say "animal" collagen, then it was probably a fetus.

I mean, w-t-f? You know what that can do to a 15 year old in the age before the internet where you can at least look this stuff up?

To me, that's inexcusable even if the end could justify the means.

I was speaking figuratively. Fortunately, our occasional "educational" films ("from there the fish are taken to the packing plant") never got into baby shampoo.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Walesa was Polish right? And the Solidarity movement was born in Poland, Right? And John Paul warned 'em about what would happen if the Soviets sent their tanks into Poland like they did to Czechoslovakia after they signed the Treaty of Brataslava. I think it's fair to say the existence of a Polish Pope gave some hope and inspiration to those people, don't you think?

Why are you so worried about me "failing" to give sufficient credit to Mr. Walesa? Or the unions? Besides, Walesa is a slightly different guy than, say, Jimmy Hoffa or other union goons. The election of a Polish Pope was a once in a millenium event. And the Church's way of putting European Communism in its crosshairs. Brave political leaders are a somewhat more frequent occurrence. Naturally, we should all be grateful to SEIU for the fall of European Communism. Can't you libstains EVER give it a rest?

All union leaders are about the same. Right? Lech Walesa, Tony Boyle--hard to tell 'em apart. Your analysis of my "straw that broke the camel's back" analogy is laughably wrong.

Since I guess you don't pay attention, I'll remind you that I have even less use or sympathy for American unions than I do for religion - and that's saying something. American unions have as much relevance to this conversation as chess does to barn swallows; I would never give the SIEU an ounce of credit for the fall of communism. Nice strawman, though.

Forgive me for thinking that a guy who actually put his life on the line to found Solidarity and worked for more than a decade in the trenches to build the organization should get a little more credit than a guy who, well, pontificated from his safe Ivory Tower in the middle of Italy. Walesa got his Nobel 11 years before JP2, while the fight was still raging - the Norwegians got it right.

Wonder what names I'll get called THIS time.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Since I guess you don't pay attention, I'll remind you that I have even less use or sympathy for American unions than I do for religion - and that's saying something. American unions have as much relevance to this conversation as chess does to barn swallows; I would never give the SIEU an ounce of credit for the fall of communism. Nice strawman, though.

Forgive me for thinking that a guy who actually put his life on the line to found Solidarity and worked for more than a decade in the trenches to build the organization should get a little more credit than a guy who, well, pontificated from his safe Ivory Tower in the middle of Italy. Walesa got his Nobel 11 years before JP2, while the fight was still raging - the Norwegians got it right.

Wonder what names I'll get called THIS time.

I was using sarcasm, which is clearly above your pay grade. And John Paul came down out of his "safe Ivory tower in the middle of Italy" long enough to take a bullet for his support of Polish freedom. His involvement wasn't entirely "pontificating," was it? Walesa is a great man, who certainly earned his Nobel Prize (unlike someone else I could mention). I'm sure you've forgotten than Walesa credits John Paul's 1979 visit to Poland as being the inspiration for the creation of Solidarity.

So what's your point? I said something unarguable about the historic importance of the election of a Polish Pope and the key role that Pope played in the death of European Communism and you step on your johnson with your anti-religious animus. The Pope's role here was far more secular than sacred. Telling that decrepit old murderer Brezhnev that he would lay down the Crown of St. Peter and return to Poland to fight Soviet tanks, should that be necessary, was an act of great bravery and very nearly cost him his life.

John Paul and Walesa played different but complimentary roles here. But that's not enough for you. Evidently placing the election of a Polish Pope in its proper historic context, in your mind, means diminishing Walesa's role. That's just nonsense. And either ignorant or exceptionally mean spirited.

I once interviewed the Polish ambassador to Japan at the time marshall law was declared (sadly, I can't spell his name but phonetically it's Zdee slav Ru arsh). He defected after the declaration. Among other things, I asked him if the KGB was responsible for the attempt on the Pope's life. He answered in the affirmative and added that they would try again if they thought they needed to.

No need for me to call you names. Anyone reading your post would instantly recognize it for what it is.

 

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Walesa was Polish right? And the Solidarity movement was born in Poland, Right? And John Paul warned 'em about what would happen if the Soviets sent their tanks into Poland like they did to Czechoslovakia after they signed the Treaty of Brataslava. I think it's fair to say the existence of a Polish Pope gave some hope and inspiration to those people, don't you think?

Why are you so worried about me "failing" to give sufficient credit to Mr. Walesa? Or the unions? Besides, Walesa is a slightly different guy than, say, Jimmy Hoffa or other union goons. The election of a Polish Pope was a once in a millenium event. And the Church's way of putting European Communism in its crosshairs. Brave political leaders are a somewhat more frequent occurrence. Naturally, we should all be grateful to SEIU for the fall of European Communism. Can't you libstains EVER give it a rest?

All union leaders are about the same. Right? Lech Walesa, Tony Boyle--hard to tell 'em apart. Your analysis of my "straw that broke the camel's back" analogy is laughably wrong.

Did you really just call LynahFan a liberal? Really?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Did you really just call LynahFan a liberal? Really?

I don't see the word "liberal", "tard", or "stain" anywhere in that message.