Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

so far most of the comments about Romney's choice of Ryan for running mate view it through the lens of political calculation. At heart, Romney is a business person involved in politics; he's not a career politician.

When viewed from the lens of business, the Ryan choice fits pretty well, especially when you go beyond the election into actual governing:
> Romney is the turn-around expert; Ryan is the budget guru: big picture + details
> Romney can concentrate on government reorganization; Ryan can concentrate on day-to-day budget.
> Romney can remain "Presidential" and appear totally above the fray; Ryan as "attack dog" is somewhat amusing because his personal style is so folksy and congenial.
> Romney is a bit wooden on the stump, though he definitely is improving; Ryan's 'aw shucks' style really engages his audience and can be quite effective
> Romney and Ryan have a positive message of something meaningfully greater than themselves that they stand "for." Obama and Biden still have not crafted a positive message (raise taxes on the rich and increase government spending: is that really they best they can do?)

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

so far most of the comments about Romney's choice of Ryan for running mate view it through the lens of political calculation. At heart, Romney is a business person involved in politics; he's not a career politician.

When viewed from the lens of business, the Ryan choice fits pretty well, especially when you go beyond the election into actual governing:
> Romney is the turn-around expert; Ryan is the budget guru: big picture + details
> Romney can concentrate on government reorganization; Ryan can concentrate on day-to-day budget.
> Romney can remain "Presidential" and appear totally above the fray; Ryan as "attack dog" is somewhat amusing because his personal style is so folksy and congenial.
> Romney is a bit wooden on the stump, though he definitely is improving; Ryan's 'aw shucks' style really engages his audience and can be quite effective
> Romney and Ryan have a positive message of something meaningfully greater than themselves that they stand "for." Obama and Biden still have not crafted a positive message (raise taxes on the rich and increase government spending: is that really they best they can do?)

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

Post with some thought.

I think Ryan is a pretty good pick for Romney. Some think its risky...I think its safe. Ryan is a sharp guy, who is likeable (he appears to folks in the midwest). At the surface, it looks good. He was at risk of picking a Palin in Portman (IMO) and passed the test. Not a perfect pick, but I don't see that leftish pundit enthusiam on this pick is meritted.

Having said that, Ryan is NOT a good fit for Romney to govern. Yes Ryan is the numbers guy and Romney is the big picture guy. But they are extremely narrowly focused on both financials and numbers (outside of his critical role on the budget, Ryan has largely just represented a smallish district in WI). There is no evidence that either of these guys are an expert on improving the economy (which is quite different than knowing how to run a business or plan a budget and is lost on most people). There is no evidence that either are public policy experts...good at solving societal challenges (education and the like). And quite obviously there is no evidence of any knowledge of anything that requires a passport.

Smart team...but probably with probably the most narrow experience of any ticket running for president we've seen in our lifetimes.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

They know they are going to be subject to disparagement and vilification anyway; now they can say, "you'l probably hear the Democrats say [whatever], that's to be expected." they can tell people what the attacks will be before the attacks even occur!

No part of that is a good thing.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Post with some thought....

... Ryan is NOT a good fit for Romney to govern. Yes Ryan is the numbers guy and Romney is the big picture guy. But they are extremely narrowly focused on both financials and numbers (outside of his critical role on the budget, Ryan has largely just represented a smallish district in WI). There is no evidence that either of these guys are an expert on improving the economy (which is quite different than knowing how to run a business or plan a budget and is lost on most people). There is no evidence that either are public policy experts...good at solving societal challenges (education and the like). And quite obviously there is no evidence of any knowledge of anything that requires a passport.

Smart team...but probably with probably the most narrow experience of any ticket running for president we've seen in our lifetimes.

Hmm....the latest version of Medicare reform is the Ryan (R) - Wyden (D) proposal....you did know that, right?

Ryan is a clear thinker and would IMHO be a persuasive bridge-builder due to his existing contacts in the House. Put Ryan to work with Congressional leaders of both parties and you'll get a budget that members of both parties will vote for. Reid / Democrat-controlled Senate have not passed a budget in three years, despite having a majority.

I'm not worried about Romney's lack of expertise in anything. We've already seen him pick really smart, talented assistants in his other endeavors. He seems to me to have a good sense of what he knows and what he doesn't know, and like any other effective business person, he knows that it doesn't pay to have any illusions on that score as well. If he doesn't know something, he''ll simply admit it and then go hire an expert. What else would you expect a rich guy to do but to go out and hire the best servants that money can buy?!!

He knows that works because he's done it several times. He knows that Ryan is better at certain things than he is, that these things are important to the campaign, and so he brings in Ryan to do it. President Romney would do more of the same.


I would love to see what a turn-around specialist, someone who buys failing companies and re-organizes them so that they use their existing resources better to find success, would do with the federal government? Consolidate 15 cabinet departments into six? shift federal regulation over to conferences of state officials?* business geeks would have lots of fun with that.


One last off-hand observation, probably of little significance overall.....it appears to me that Ryan and Romney genuinely like each other; if you watch their timing and body language when they are together they seem to have a natural affinity...I can almost see them doing stand-up comedy together.






* have to build this idea out more later.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So wait - are you supposed to be the independent or is that Flag?

Well, if I were to pick one of the two now to go out with, would I prefer to be involved in a conversation or a lecture? to spend time with someone who seems interested in learning new things or to spend time with someone who already is convinced he knows everything?

I don't care how you vote whatsoever, but have you listened to Romney speak? Ever? The guy could bore paint but even worse he won't actually talk about anything. Here's the entire conversation:

You: So Mitt, would like a beer?
Mitt: I'm not going to comment on that at this time
You: Ok, have you had a chance to look at the menu?
Mitt: That's really a subject that we'll get into after the election
You: I sure hope the NHL doesn't lockout
Mitt: We'll look at that Fresh as we reach that but I believe they will self-deport

I loved Romney's latest line: "I want to increase Americans' after-tax incomes." that is a brilliant way to frame the issue, put it in practical terms on how it concretely affects people in their daily lives.

Really Mitt? How you going to do that? Is that before or after all the deductions you specify but plan to eliminate? Are you going to eliminate the mortgage deduction? But Mitt won't answer that question or any other. In fact he's going to go the entire election process without specifically answering a single question.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Fresh Fish is a liberal Flag is the independent I believe which I actually buy.

Mitt reminds me of the DFL Party here in Minnesota...they always have these great ideas, they talk about all the stuff they are going to do but never have any real substance behind it or how they plan to implement it. It is all just BS.

And FF, this isnt a movie...Mitt being out in front of the criticism and trying to head it off at the pass like Eminem in 8 Mile is not going to help him in any way. Leaving aside the fact that he hasnt been able to do it at all since the primaries started (despite everyone knowing how he was going to be attacked from Day 1) doing it now is not going to all of a sudden make him look like a more electable guy to anyone but his base. Winning the GOP vote should not be his primary concern winning the independent vote should be. Acknowledging faults will do nothing but bring them to the forefront again.

Mitt and his people have run one of the dumbest campaigns I have seen. If the GOP had put forth a real candidate (not "The Next Guy in Line" ) I think they would be running high and fast to the White House at this point.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Mitt and his people have run one of the dumbest campaigns I have seen. If the GOP had put forth a real candidate (not "The Next Guy in Line" ) I think they would be running high and fast to the White House at this point.

You can I can certainly agree on this point!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Mitt and his people have run one of the dumbest campaigns I have seen. If the GOP had put forth a real candidate (not "The Next Guy in Line" ) I think they would be running high and fast to the White House at this point.

Pretty much - exactly like the last time a stiff from Massachusetts was on the ballot.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What I can't figure out is why all the Republicans bailed this round. We all know the story of how Clinton "backed" into the nomination because all the expected Democrats chose not to run with Bush I rolling along with 80%+ approval ratings the previous year, and his son was somewhat similar in 2003, not dropping below 60% until late June.

Obama's never had that kind of approval rating, and yet all last summer was lists of Republican front runners saying "Eh, not interested right now."

 

[BCeagle]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

One thing for certain is that Romney has to get the edge with women's vote, the elderly, and the minority vote. I just don't see how he will with what he has said and now with Ryan on the ticket. No matter what party gets in the WH, I don't think either one will stop the collapse in 2013 that is predicted by some economist because of our debt, the way we're printing money and how the dollar will keep losing its value, another bubble is predicted, etc. Congress has no ability to get anything done because of party lines and its killing this country. A 3rd party is needed in this 2-party controlled nation. They will never agree to clean up the corruption and the money spent on lobbying that goes on.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

One thing for certain is that Romney has to get the edge with women's vote, the elderly, and the minority vote.

ROTFLMAO

He has no shot at the women's vote, no shot at Hispanics. He'll keep the old people cause the Baby Boomers love the idea of cashing out and leaving everyone else bankrupt.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What I can't figure out is why all the Republicans bailed this round.

Mitch Daniels, yes (and I think he would have won if he'd run).

Who else bailed that would have been a good candidate? Rick Perry seemed like a rock star until he actually had to think on his feet, and we were reminded that the main reason he's been winning elections in TX is because of his hair.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

ROTFLMAO

He has no shot at the women's vote, no shot at Hispanics. He'll keep the old people cause the Baby Boomers love the idea of cashing out and leaving everyone else bankrupt.

I think about it everyday and laugh gleefully at the prospect of you standing in a soup line.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What about our courtrooms, and our currency? I haven't heard much agitation to redo the back of all our paper money....

I believe the SCOTUS term is: "Harmless deism." Amen.

I mean, let's not offend "Dr." Hasan as he's paying cash for the ammunition to shoot up Fort Hood by having "In God we Trust" printed on the back. Nosiree.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Well, we have our first substantive issue.

When Obama picked Biden, God didn't kill anybody to celebrate.

Is this based on a claim or statement that a Republican actually made regarding the earthquake? Or is it just a slightly odd joke that I don't get? Or both?

 

[BCeagle]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I don't see why it was a big deal keeping his VP choice a secret for a week. Flying to Hartford and getting picked up to be driven to Boston in secret does not interest most people. Most people who are struggling have other things on their minds. I think making it hard for people to vote in the upcoming election is another matter and has serious implications for the November election. Eventually, he has to allow access to his other returns that he won't release yet and what he did at Bain is very relevant for people to decide about his candidacy in the election. Certainly, his bumbling comments in England gave us some info about how he will handle foreign affairs and relations. Raising more money is a sad statement on our politics if that is the reason who gets elected next and not based on issues and policies that affect the nation, especially the middle class and poor. We are in a sad state when colleges can keep raising tuition and restrict access to education and jobs to the wealthy if student loans are severely cut back. With the way the economy is going, a degree doesn't even ensure many of a job.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I don't see why it was a big deal keeping his VP choice a secret for a week. Flying to Hartford and getting picked up to be driven to Boston in secret does not interest most people. Most people who are struggling have other things on their minds. I think making it hard for people to vote in the upcoming election is another matter and has serious implications for the November election. Eventually, he has to allow access to his other returns that he won't release yet and what he did at Bain is very relevant for people to decide about his candidacy in the election. Certainly, his bumbling comments in England gave us some info about how he will handle foreign affairs and relations. Raising more money is a sad statement on our politics if that is the reason who gets elected next and not based on issues and policies that affect the nation, especially the middle class and poor. We are in a sad state when colleges can keep raising tuition and restrict access to education and jobs to the wealthy if student loans are severely cut back. With the way the economy is going, a degree doesn't even ensure many of a job.

"vampire," "felon," "tax cheat," "murderer." THAT's how His Newtoneness is running his campaign. You have noticed, haven't you, that he's had more fundraisers than any presidential candidate ever (he's doing FIVE today)? What's your feeling about His Panderness releasing his college transcripts? "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." We've had 5,000 word articles about some Romney incident in prep school and the publshing of his freshman report card from high school. Let His Sleaziness release his transcripts and Romney will release his tax returns.

How long do you suppose it will be before His Oneness attacks Romney's religion? I'd say any day now.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

He'll keep the old people cause the Baby Boomers love the idea of cashing out and leaving everyone else bankrupt.

My mother-in-law is 60. She had been on the fence but she believes Ryan "wants to end Medicare" and thinks it will affect her, so now she's completely in the Dem column.

I think a lot of Boomers are going to be worried like that. It may not be warranted by the Ryan Plan specifics, but then again, "death panels."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Is this based on a claim or statement that a Republican actually made regarding the earthquake? Or is it just a slightly odd joke that I don't get? Or both?

AFAIK, just a joke based on the GOPers who tend to crawl out of the woodwork whenever there's a natural disaster and blame it on God's wrath. Don't lose any sleep.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Mitt and his people have run one of the dumbest campaigns I have seen. If the GOP had put forth a real candidate (not "The Next Guy in Line" ) I think they would be running high and fast to the White House at this point.

Too early to tell.

Romney won the nomination by default against the weakest major party field in memory. Now he faces a very strong campaign, and his Signature Move (go negative, then squeal when your opponent goes negative) isn't working. Picking Ryan is, IMHO, a sign that his handlers have decided to run a substantive campaign because they had no other choice.

However we got here, it's better than I expected.