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Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Romney's intelligence and defense advisors are drawn from the same ideology as Bush's, so I think the tendency for all other things to be subservient to their ideology would be asserted very strongly (they aren't coy about this; their foundational principle is that the West, Israel, and America face an existential threat so anything they do is justified).

Note also that the leading proponents of executive power on the Court were appointed by Republicans. The best security for limited government is divided government, but neither party has shown any compunction about trying to push the branch they control at a given time to obtain their ends. Romney comes out of a corporate environment in which there is no democracy, the Decider in Chief says jump and everybody else says how high. That's not a mentality conducive to preserving Constitutional protections designed to thwart power. Even if Romney had respect for the Constitution, and I don't think there's any compelling reason to believe he does, like all business leaders he would find checks and balances to be inefficient and frustrating.

I think it's mostly a wash. We have come to a pass where neither party (and apparently neither side of the political debate) has much respect for the Constitution when it impedes them, and that's the only time actions matter. The right talks a good game, but it's been decades since they respected a principle of law that opposed their agenda. They've been spun up to believe that anything that goes against them is by definition illegitimate. That's the opposite of rule of law.

The other thing about Romney, touched on below, is his extraordinary weakness. The pressures that will be exerted upon him by his ideologically extreme advisors will be severe, and, just as with Dubya, the man does not have the fortitude to withstand them. We see this already with his Gumby act on the campaign trail. In office he will always be suspected by the far right, and thus he will always be bending over to appease them to void an attack from the right flank in 2016.

This was essentially the point His Panderness made when announcing that his position on gay marriage had "evolved."
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

This was essentially the point His Panderness made when announcing that his position on gay marriage had "evolved."
I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Do you think Obama was worried that he was going face a flank attack from the left and he moved on gay marriage to co-opt it? Possible, certainly. Does it have bearing on respect for the Constitution, though? When it comes to that I worry a lot more about his complicity in extending the Patriot Act, not closing Gitmo, etc. That was weakness.

To be clear, I haven't seen a presidential candidate who would begin to roll the "imperial presidency" back other than Paul, who it appears would actually forgo executive action even if it was inconvenient. But is there anybody else with that restraint, from either side?
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Do you think Obama was worried that he was going face a flank attack from the left and he moved on gay marriage to co-opt it? Possible, certainly. Does it have bearing on respect for the Constitution, though? When it comes to that I worry a lot more about his complicity in extending the Patriot Act, not closing Gitmo, etc. That was weakness.



To be clear, I haven't seen a presidential candidate who would begin to roll the "imperial presidency" back other than Paul, who it appears would actually forgo executive action even if it was inconvenient. But is there anybody else with that restraint, from either side?

Keep on posing as someone who's balanced. There may be one or two rookies who buy that act.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Looks like someone who could take care of business. Any political party affiliation? Maybe the Sven and Ole Party?
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Another day in the life of the presidential campaign. Obama is running around screaming that Romney gave some woman deadly cancer by laying off her husband the bread winner. Someone looked into it, it turns out she sickened and died years after hubby got laid off anyway. So the good news is that Romney doesn't cause cancer by the sheer force of his evil will. The bad news is that it's just another normal day in the presidential campaign.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

From what I can tell, there are basically two seriously compelling reasons to oppose Obama term II: fiscal irresponsibility (of which Romney would surely be even worse, so then what?) and a disdain for constitutional process which is summarized like nowhere I have seen in the Detroit News. This is also something that's not limited to Democrats, but Obama would seem to be the worst in this area.

Other thoughts?

An answer to the original OUTRAGE OF THE DAY!!!!!! that started all this.


Dubious claim behind Romney welfare attack By NBC’s Domenico Montanaro and Michael O’Brien


The latest attack launched by Mitt Romney involves an assertion that President Obama has decided to "gut" popular welfare reforms instituted in the 1990s, transforming the public assistance program into a giveaway for the impoverished.

The presumptive Republican nominee hailed the welfare reforms achieved by President Bill Clinton and congressional Republicans, which conditioned receiving welfare on seeking work, as a bipartisan triumph of the 1990s. In the same breath, he accused Obama of trying to "reverse that accomplishment by taking the work requirement out of welfare."

It's a charge that was echoed in a new television ad released Tuesday by the Romney campaign, as well as a conference call held this morning by senior advisers.


"By violating this fundamental piece of the block grant, you've now essentially made this into a blank check from the federal government to the states, with no work requirement at all," said Jonathan Burks, the Romney campaign's deputy policy director.

The TV ad charges that under this plan, proved by this memo, “you wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check.”

The charge is based on a July 12 memo issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, in which HHS said it would consider approving waivers for states seeking more flexibility in implementing welfare reform, officially known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF.

The memo prompted outrage from many congressional Republicans, who have charged the Obama administration is changing a requirement of a law passed by Congress in an executive branch power grab.

But does the memo do what the Romney campaign charges -- that it guts welfare reform, gets rid of work requirements entirely, and would “just send you your welfare check”?

Not exactly. The memo states, for instance, that HHS “will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF."

In other words, a state would have to offer an alternative program similar to the work requirements first put into place by the 1990s welfare reform law in order to receive the waiver.

The Romney campaign has homed in only on the fact that the work requirement could be waived by the government; they haven't spoken to the alternatives governors might offer as a replacement.

"If you look at the memorandum issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, one of the items in which they express their willingness to issue waivers is -- a project that demonstrates attainment of superior employment outcomes in lieu of participation rate requirements," Burks said Tuesday. "In other words, that's exactly the core of the welfare work requirement, is states reach the participation rate threshold. So they express their willingness to waive the core requirement, which is exactly what we're talking about here today."

At the root of these charges is an effort to paint Obama as especially liberal, even more than Clinton, whose championing of the original legislation was seen as a component of his centrist tone.

"Through this action, President Obama apparently believes that Bill Clinton was way too conservative, and that the Obama administration is and should be far, far to the left of the Clinton administration," Texas Republican Senate candidate Ted Cruz said on the Romney call.

Moreover, attacking welfare is a tried-and-tested strategy for Republicans. It's an issue they believe plays well in key swing states among middle- and working-class voters, whom the Romney campaign needs to win in November, and who might be more susceptible to an argument painting welfare recipients, essentially, as freeloaders.

The Obama campaign responded by noting that some governors -- Republicans, no less -- had requested this kind of greater flexibility granted by the HHS.

“The Obama administration, working with the Republican governors of states like Nevada and Utah, is giving states additional flexibility only if they move more people from welfare to work – not fewer," said spokeswoman Lis Smith, adding that Romney, as governor, "petitioned the federal government for waivers that would have let people stay on welfare for an indefinite period, ending welfare reform as we know it."

The Romney campaign's Burks responded on the conference call by nothing that while Romney had sought flexibility in some areas, he'd never sought a waiver of the core work requirement.

But nuance often is the first casualty of a campaign as hard-fought and close as this one.

Case-in-point? The administration's HHS memo certainly does not make it so the federal government will now “just send you your welfare check," as the Romney campaign's television ad asserts.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

The sole reason I can think of to back Romney over Obama is it's a good idea to clean out the Augean stables from time to time. If I thought they were equal that would be a good reason, but Romney's policy preferences are clearly inferior. Nobody can tell about Romney's policy specifics because we're not entitled to know about those, we're just supposed to trust him. Noblesse oblige, dontcha know.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

The sole reason I can think of to back Romney over Obama is it's a good idea to clean out the Augean stables from time to time. If I thought they were equal that would be a good reason, but Romney's policy preferences are clearly inferior. Nobody can tell about Romney's policy specifics because we're not entitled to know about those, we're just supposed to trust him. Noblesse oblige, dontcha know.
We need to elect him to find out what's in 'im. ;)
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I shoulda known. Back under the rock you go.

"Ooooh, that hurt." Yes, you should have known. I've had your pompous, lefty intellectualizing up to here. Being denied the opportunity to discuss your Wonkette inspired, anti-Americanism is rather like being denied the opportunity to eat my spinich. I'll get over it.
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

An answer to the original OUTRAGE OF THE DAY!!!!!! that started all this.


Dubious claim behind Romney welfare attack By NBC’s Domenico Montanaro and Michael O’Brien


The latest attack launched by Mitt Romney involves an assertion that President Obama has decided to "gut" popular welfare reforms instituted in the 1990s, transforming the public assistance program into a giveaway for the impoverished.

The presumptive Republican nominee hailed the welfare reforms achieved by President Bill Clinton and congressional Republicans, which conditioned receiving welfare on seeking work, as a bipartisan triumph of the 1990s. In the same breath, he accused Obama of trying to "reverse that accomplishment by taking the work requirement out of welfare."

It's a charge that was echoed in a new television ad released Tuesday by the Romney campaign, as well as a conference call held this morning by senior advisers.


"By violating this fundamental piece of the block grant, you've now essentially made this into a blank check from the federal government to the states, with no work requirement at all," said Jonathan Burks, the Romney campaign's deputy policy director.

The TV ad charges that under this plan, proved by this memo, “you wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check.”

The charge is based on a July 12 memo issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, in which HHS said it would consider approving waivers for states seeking more flexibility in implementing welfare reform, officially known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF.

The memo prompted outrage from many congressional Republicans, who have charged the Obama administration is changing a requirement of a law passed by Congress in an executive branch power grab.

But does the memo do what the Romney campaign charges -- that it guts welfare reform, gets rid of work requirements entirely, and would “just send you your welfare check”?

Not exactly. The memo states, for instance, that HHS “will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF."

In other words, a state would have to offer an alternative program similar to the work requirements first put into place by the 1990s welfare reform law in order to receive the waiver.

The Romney campaign has homed in only on the fact that the work requirement could be waived by the government; they haven't spoken to the alternatives governors might offer as a replacement.

"If you look at the memorandum issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, one of the items in which they express their willingness to issue waivers is -- a project that demonstrates attainment of superior employment outcomes in lieu of participation rate requirements," Burks said Tuesday. "In other words, that's exactly the core of the welfare work requirement, is states reach the participation rate threshold. So they express their willingness to waive the core requirement, which is exactly what we're talking about here today."

At the root of these charges is an effort to paint Obama as especially liberal, even more than Clinton, whose championing of the original legislation was seen as a component of his centrist tone.

"Through this action, President Obama apparently believes that Bill Clinton was way too conservative, and that the Obama administration is and should be far, far to the left of the Clinton administration," Texas Republican Senate candidate Ted Cruz said on the Romney call.

Moreover, attacking welfare is a tried-and-tested strategy for Republicans. It's an issue they believe plays well in key swing states among middle- and working-class voters, whom the Romney campaign needs to win in November, and who might be more susceptible to an argument painting welfare recipients, essentially, as freeloaders.

The Obama campaign responded by noting that some governors -- Republicans, no less -- had requested this kind of greater flexibility granted by the HHS.

“The Obama administration, working with the Republican governors of states like Nevada and Utah, is giving states additional flexibility only if they move more people from welfare to work – not fewer," said spokeswoman Lis Smith, adding that Romney, as governor, "petitioned the federal government for waivers that would have let people stay on welfare for an indefinite period, ending welfare reform as we know it."

The Romney campaign's Burks responded on the conference call by nothing that while Romney had sought flexibility in some areas, he'd never sought a waiver of the core work requirement.

But nuance often is the first casualty of a campaign as hard-fought and close as this one.

Case-in-point? The administration's HHS memo certainly does not make it so the federal government will now “just send you your welfare check," as the Romney campaign's television ad asserts.

So the media wing of His Hopeychangeyness' campaign now acts as analysts of his opponant's TV spots? Given NBC's recent record of deliberate distortion in the Martin/Zimmerman incident, who could possibly doubt their honesty and objectivity?

And now that the new Obama Super Pac spot has been exposed as a tissue of lies (the one that blames Romney personally for the cancer death of a lady) can we assume His Preciousness will demand it be taken down? And will these same two NBC schmucks analyze and criticize the spot? I won't hold my breath.
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Would you support this approach or attitude under GW Bush? Someone said the other day that when Castro first gained office, nobody expected him to be a communist dictator. But a few months of "leadership" later, and they were stuck with him for life.

Way to go Godwin with it. Obama has been in for nearly 4 years and is one vote away from being out of office.

Another day in the life of the presidential campaign.

Yup. See post #409.
 
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