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Dump Term 2, Part 2: "A third term would be a big shattering."

Cant remember if this was posted...

bsky.app

Adam Keiper (@adamkeiper.com)

FFS: RFK Jr. announced "that $500 million worth of vaccine development projects, all using mRNA technology, will be halted." In his statement, RFK Jr. said "we're moving beyond the limitations of mRNA and investing in better solutions." Antivaxxers continue to despise and lie about mRNA tech...
bsky.app bsky.app
 
We are far from the only country working on mRNA. It's just another place we will be left behind and other countries will take over our dominance. But the science itself will keep advancing without us. Frankly we are so nauseous and toxic it is good that cutting edge science is getting untangled from us.

It will be a better world when US hegemony ends. Just another stupid, selfish empire, going to the graveyard. Difference is with us it's a suicide.

We had a chance as a country. After the total victory of the Civil War we should have made the entire Confederate-sympathetic white population the legal slaves of their erstwhile victims. Sometimes you need to think outside the box. They could have learned valuable job skills.
 
I hadn't seen it here yet. It's one of the more stupid things America has done recently. This is truly the dumbest country on Earth. No one gives up their advantages on purpose like this country does.
 
Kepler said:
This doesn't have to follow from a big tent. You can have Leftists who fight hard for Leftism, Liberals who fight hard for Liberalism, and Centrists who fight hard for Centrism. They each speak to their constituencies. The only rule is Reagan's 11th Commandment: thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow party member.
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They are not in our party. Full stop. They are only here because they have nowhere else to go. Do NOT cater to them because they are not a reliable electorate. They can pinch their nose and vote for us if they want because the second the GOP returns to a less fashy version (if it ever does) those people are gone and you spent 10 or so years not growing your values. If the Democrats take either house in 2026 they will learn all the wrong lessons. It will be because Trump crashed the economy, not because our party has a message that resonates with Americans.

The more we welcome former Republicans the more people who don't follow this stuff like we do will be justified in saying we are the same thing. Think of any luxury brand and how fiercely they protect their image. One of the biggest mistakes the democrats ever made was trotting out Liz.
 
Handyman said:
Cant remember if this was posted...

bsky.app

Adam Keiper (@adamkeiper.com)

FFS: RFK Jr. announced "that $500 million worth of vaccine development projects, all using mRNA technology, will be halted." In his statement, RFK Jr. said "we're moving beyond the limitations of mRNA and investing in better solutions." Antivaxxers continue to despise and lie about mRNA tech...
bsky.app bsky.app
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It's time

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Bronco said:
They are not in our party. Full stop. They are only here because they have nowhere else to go. Do NOT cater to them because they are not a reliable electorate. They can pinch their nose and vote for us if they want because the second the GOP returns to a less fashy version (if it ever does) those people are gone and you spent 10 or so years not growing your values. If the Democrats take either house in 2026 they will learn all the wrong lessons. It will be because Trump crashed the economy, not because our party has a message that resonates with Americans.

The more we welcome former Republicans the more people who don't follow this stuff like we do will be justified in saying we are the same thing. Think of any luxury brand and how fiercely they protect their image. One of the biggest mistakes the democrats ever made was trotting out Liz.
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Absolutely agree 100%. Hell we already had Geoff Duncan and Liz Cheney and we still fucking lost in 2024. Don’t give these fuckers an inch.
 
Yeah its bad enough we have Reagan Republicans masking as Democrats in leadership...adding more will only make things worse.

Although like most converts the newest Dems do tend to be more Left than the median Dem. Phucking Bill Kristol is to the Left of half the Dem Senate Caucus these days.

But still we don't need them... they bring net zero voters. Go after the Zohran crowd not the Blue Dog crowd.
 
Handyman said:
Yeah its bad enough we have Reagan Republicans masking as Democrats in leadership...adding more will only make things worse.

Although like most converts the newest Dems do tend to be more Left than the median Dem. Phucking Bill Kristol is to the Left of half the Dem Senate Caucus these days.

But still we don't need them... they bring net zero voters. Go after the Zohran crowd not the Blue Dog crowd.
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On the one hand you guys are missing my point. It is not to "broaden the appeal" of the party. That, as you all point out so well, is impossible -- it only blunts it and muddies the waters.

It is to create multiple points of entry each of which has a distinct identity. Typically in a multiparty state you do this with another party, but that does not work in the US.

However, all of you are missing my point which means I am the problem, I am not being clear in my description. Suffice that we are all in violent agreement that Democrats need to get off their asses. Whether you think of that as offering a bright line distinction as a Liberal-Left alternative, or offering a bright line distinction as opposing the Fascists, is an argument in semantics.
 
Kepler said:
On the one hand you guys are missing my point. It is not to "broaden the appeal" of the party. That, as you all point out so well, is impossible -- it only blunts it and muddies the waters.

It is to create multiple points of entry each of which has a distinct identity. Typically in a multiparty state you do this with another party, but that does not work in the US.

However, all of you are missing my point which means I am the problem, I am not being clear in my description. Suffice that we are all in violent agreement that Democrats need to get off their asses. Whether you think of that as offering a bright line distinction as a Liberal-Left alternative, or offering a bright line distinction as opposing the Fascists, is an argument in semantics.
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I understand what you’re saying, but I think the problem for most of us is that none of these newly converted “Democrats” plan to stick around if the Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger-type politicians ever recapture the Republican Party again.
Stealing and robbing from the “middle class” and poor people is in the DNA of Liz Cheney, Geoff Duncan, Bill Kristol, etc. They are/were just smart enough to do it quietly, under the table, out of sight. You know this. The Democratic Party doesn’t need any of their “identity”- they don’t stand for our values. Vote with us, yeah, go for it, but you (should) get nothing in return.
 
psych said:
I understand what you’re saying, but I think the problem for most of us is that none of these newly converted “Democrats” plan to stick around if the Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger-type politicians ever recapture the Republican Party again.
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They don't need to stick around. This is an emergency. It's 1932 and we're fighting Nazis. We have to win, now, and stop them.

Tomorrow will take care of itself. Tomorrow Left and Right may not even matter. The world will change and our ideas will fade. Our responsibility is what we are sure we can see, right this second, and that's an existential threat to life on Earth.

We always bitched we were too late for tall ships and too soon for space ships. But history will have her little jokes and She has given us a mission.

Complete the mission.
 
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psych said:
I understand what you’re saying, but I think the problem for most of us is that none of these newly converted “Democrats” plan to stick around if the Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger-type politicians ever recapture the Republican Party again.
Stealing and robbing from the “middle class” and poor people is in the DNA of Liz Cheney, Geoff Duncan, Bill Kristol, etc. They are/were just smart enough to do it quietly, under the table, out of sight. You know this. The Democratic Party doesn’t need any of their “identity”- they don’t stand for our values. Vote with us, yeah, go for it, but you (should) get nothing in return.
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Bingo. They can vote third party and hurt the GOP just as much. We dont need them.

Plus look at the optics...the DSA has never been in such a position, the Progressives have a chance to reshape the party with really one election in NY. The Corporatists wont support the DSA and are running scared and now we are letting former Trump voters (make no mistake they all voted for him and would again if not for their pet issue) in and catering to them? Harris just lost the most consequential election in 250 years because she fled to the center and we are doubling down? All for what, maybe some votes locally and a bunch of money?

We will take their vote if they like but phuck them otherwise. Our tent doesnt need them.

And Kep wanting them around will 100% kill your dream of an FDR style fixing of the government. Some of these clowns will run for office and fight the work. They wont all of a sudden support LGBTQ rights, Civil Rights, packing The Court, Socialized Medicine, higher taxes...etc. If you thought Manchin was bad these guys will make him look like Klobuchar when it comes to working to pass legislation.
 
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Kepler said:
They don't need to stick around. This is an emergency. It's 1932 and we're fighting Nazis. We have to win, now, and stop them.

Tomorrow will take care of itself. Tomorrow Left and Right may not even matter. The world will change and our ideas will fade. Our responsibility is what we are sure we can see, right this second, and that's an existential threat to life on Earth.

We always bitched we were too late for tall ships and too soon for space ships. But history will have her little jokes and She has given us a mission.

Complete the mission.
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That is the plan the Dems have ran since 2016 and it is a miserable failure. If COVID doesnt shuffle the deck Trump wins in 2020 and we are already dead. That despite many of the former big wigs in the GOP turning and helping the Dems.

What you seem to not realize is the GOP voter isnt changing. They had their chance 3 times and never did it...because they don't want to. They don't care if they suffer because others suffer with them. They are a group of people who are like the friends we all have that are so sad the idea of others being happy makes them ill so they ruin everyone's good time.

The mistake you make is you think any can be turned, but they have been brainwashed to never vote Dem. It takes a decade at least to fix that and we haven't even started. Trump told them he would screw them and they put him in anyways. 1932 Germany was different...this is closer to modern day Belfast. While they have a dual government that sometimes functions (Irish and British each elect one leader) the truth is the city is completely divided (by phucking walls!!) and no Irishman would vote for a Unionist because they are considered British. (Even if they were born in the North of Ireland and always lived there...and vice versa which is why Bushmills never flies the Republic Flag) Nothing will change that...even when Irish Reunification happens likely at the end of the decade. Its too tribal and the distrust is too high. They have been raised to never switch sides and they never will. That is who we are now and that won't change. We need to stop pretending...

There is a reason the elected Dems have the worst approval rating in history...because they don't stand with what the people want. The people want what we progressives offer, so its time for the Party to shift Left. You dont do that by bringing in the Right you do it by fighting them. Zohran proved it can work...so lets try that instead of the same bs we have done since Mondale lost.
 
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psych said:
I understand what you’re saying, but I think the problem for most of us is that none of these newly converted “Democrats” plan to stick around if the Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and Adam Kinzinger-type politicians ever recapture the Republican Party again.
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They don't need to stick around if they can get the party further and further away from MAGA. While things have gone downhill since Reagan if not Nixon, I'd still rather see a congress half-filled with 80's Republicans than the fascist fucks of the 2020's.
 
Handyman said:
The mistake you make is you think any can be turned, but they have been brainwashed to never vote Dem. It takes a decade at least to fix that and we haven't even started. Trump told them he would screw them and they put him in anyways. 1932 Germany was different...this is closer to modern day Belfast. While they have a dual government that sometimes functions (Irish and British each elect one leader) the truth is the city is completely divided (by phucking walls!!) and no Irishman would vote for a Unionist because they are considered British. (Even if they were born in the North of Ireland and always lived there...and vice versa which is why Bushmills never flies the Republic Flag) Nothing will change that...even when Irish Reunification happens likely at the end of the decade. Its too tribal and the distrust is too high. They have been raised to never switch sides and they never will. That is who we are now and that won't change. We need to stop pretending...

There is a reason the elected Dems have the worst approval rating in history...because they don't stand with what the people want. The people want what we progressives offer, so its time for the Party to shift Left. You dont do that by bringing in the Right you do it by fighting them. Zohran proved it can work...so lets try that instead of the same bs we have done since Mondale lost.
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This. This this this this this this this!

Fuck the milquetoast centrist billionaires, stop pretending you can flip the Religious Right when they see how un-Christian the right actually is (they never will), and go full TR/FDR on the bit. Stop catering to 50+ year-olds with "concerns" about being too progressive
 
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