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Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
- Thread starter Hammer
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bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
So, what are the odds we can set up to get Verlander back on the mound ASAP after the all-star break, or are we going to give him 8 days off and go through the normal rotation like nothing happened?
So, what are the odds we can set up to get Verlander back on the mound ASAP after the all-star break, or are we going to give him 8 days off and go through the normal rotation like nothing happened?
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Based on the second half schedule, the Tigers should move to at least 7-8 above .500 to finish the season. 84-85 wins is still doable but probably won't win the division. It'll be close. Remarkable considering a lineup with Dirks, Raburn, Inge, Santiago, Wells, Worth etc. and a down year from Jackson and Boesch as well as Magglio and Guillen on their last legs. I still think that Leyland will be gone- especially if they don't make the playoffs.
Based on the second half schedule, the Tigers should move to at least 7-8 above .500 to finish the season. 84-85 wins is still doable but probably won't win the division. It'll be close. Remarkable considering a lineup with Dirks, Raburn, Inge, Santiago, Wells, Worth etc. and a down year from Jackson and Boesch as well as Magglio and Guillen on their last legs. I still think that Leyland will be gone- especially if they don't make the playoffs.
WSUWarriors
Do You Like Phil Collins?
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Leyland's already said that Verlander will be pitching the last game before the all-star break & then the first one after.
Leyland's already said that Verlander will be pitching the last game before the all-star break & then the first one after.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Inge screws up a routine grounder with a horrible throw, allows a run to score and the tying run to go to third with two outs. 2-1 DET in the 8th, also the end of Verlander's day.
Inge screws up a routine grounder with a horrible throw, allows a run to score and the tying run to go to third with two outs. 2-1 DET in the 8th, also the end of Verlander's day.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Midseason grades
Starting pitching:
Justin Verlander: A+. Nothing further is necessary here.
Max Scherzer: B-. One of the more deceiving 10-4 records that I’ve seen in a while. He’s been getting hit harder than he needs to.
Rick Porcello: D+. The more I watch, the more I think something might be wrong with his arm. Velocity is down a bit.
Brad Penny: B-. Props for being healthy, but you would think a healthy Penny would pitch better. Either way, a decent #3 starter. Hasn’t struck out very many at all. A 6 inning pitcher at this stage in his career.
Phil Coke: D. Not quite as bad as his record, but not good, either. An inability to recover from trouble was his downfall. I would expect a better 2nd half now that he’s in the pen.
Relief pitching:
Charlie Furbush: C+. Effective in the pen, but not appreciably better than Coke once he took Coke’s spot in the rotation. He was sent to Toledo after last night’s debacle in KC.
Al Albuquerque: A. I waffled about giving him an Incomplete, due to his injury. But he has enough of a body of work to give him this grade. A gem coming out of the pen, assuming his elbow recovers.
Jose Valverde: A-. You scare me too much to get a perfect grade, man. This is as close as you can get without getting a straight A.
Joaquin Benoit: D. Yes, he’s improved as of late, but he’s been too inconsistent this year.
Daniel Schlereth: D-. As close as you can get without failing, only because of youth and inexperience. This is like scoring a 60 on an exam. 5 bombs in 25 innings? Better sit in Toledo for a bit longer, kid.
Ryan Perry: F. What else am I supposed to give you with a 7.17 ERA?
Everyone else, mercifully, gets incompletes. No one else has 20 IP, and no, I’m not scoring Don Kelly.
Midseason grades
Starting pitching:
Justin Verlander: A+. Nothing further is necessary here.
Max Scherzer: B-. One of the more deceiving 10-4 records that I’ve seen in a while. He’s been getting hit harder than he needs to.
Rick Porcello: D+. The more I watch, the more I think something might be wrong with his arm. Velocity is down a bit.
Brad Penny: B-. Props for being healthy, but you would think a healthy Penny would pitch better. Either way, a decent #3 starter. Hasn’t struck out very many at all. A 6 inning pitcher at this stage in his career.
Phil Coke: D. Not quite as bad as his record, but not good, either. An inability to recover from trouble was his downfall. I would expect a better 2nd half now that he’s in the pen.
Relief pitching:
Charlie Furbush: C+. Effective in the pen, but not appreciably better than Coke once he took Coke’s spot in the rotation. He was sent to Toledo after last night’s debacle in KC.
Al Albuquerque: A. I waffled about giving him an Incomplete, due to his injury. But he has enough of a body of work to give him this grade. A gem coming out of the pen, assuming his elbow recovers.
Jose Valverde: A-. You scare me too much to get a perfect grade, man. This is as close as you can get without getting a straight A.
Joaquin Benoit: D. Yes, he’s improved as of late, but he’s been too inconsistent this year.
Daniel Schlereth: D-. As close as you can get without failing, only because of youth and inexperience. This is like scoring a 60 on an exam. 5 bombs in 25 innings? Better sit in Toledo for a bit longer, kid.
Ryan Perry: F. What else am I supposed to give you with a 7.17 ERA?
Everyone else, mercifully, gets incompletes. No one else has 20 IP, and no, I’m not scoring Don Kelly.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Infield:
Victor Martinez: A. Exceeded any expectations I had.
Alex Avila: A. See above.
Miguel Cabrera: A. Still the straw that stirs the drink.
Ramon Santiago: D. You can’t hit .225 with no power, even with your glove.
Will Rhymes: Inc.
Scott Sizemore: Inc.
Danny Worth: Inc. It’s getting close to ****-or-get-off-the-pot time with Worth.
Jhonny Peralta: A. See the catchers above
Brandon Inge: F. No production whatsoever.
Don Kelly: B. Graded on a curve here. Super sub, and no, don’t get any ideas about him playing 3B time. His production does not warrant it. Saying he would be more productive than Inge is the Tallest Midget argument, and 3B is not the place to have that discussion
Ryan Raburn: F. No, I don’t care about his recent uptick. He’s still hitting .213 and hasn’t learned what to do with that piece of leather on his hand when he’s in the field. This is the kind of guy that will get a manager fired.
Outfield:
Brennan Boesch: A. Nice bounceback and adjustment from last season. Let’s see if it continues.
Casper Wells: B. I guess. More production than I thought for this point in his career.
Andy Dirks: B+. See above.
Austin Jackson: B-. Solid defensively, but 100 strikeouts already? Really? .318 OBP leaves room for improvement, too.
Magglio Ordonez: D-. Starting to pick up, but still doesn’t justify the #3 spot in the order.
And again, anyone unnamed gets an incomplete.
Infield:
Victor Martinez: A. Exceeded any expectations I had.
Alex Avila: A. See above.
Miguel Cabrera: A. Still the straw that stirs the drink.
Ramon Santiago: D. You can’t hit .225 with no power, even with your glove.
Will Rhymes: Inc.
Scott Sizemore: Inc.
Danny Worth: Inc. It’s getting close to ****-or-get-off-the-pot time with Worth.
Jhonny Peralta: A. See the catchers above
Brandon Inge: F. No production whatsoever.
Don Kelly: B. Graded on a curve here. Super sub, and no, don’t get any ideas about him playing 3B time. His production does not warrant it. Saying he would be more productive than Inge is the Tallest Midget argument, and 3B is not the place to have that discussion
Ryan Raburn: F. No, I don’t care about his recent uptick. He’s still hitting .213 and hasn’t learned what to do with that piece of leather on his hand when he’s in the field. This is the kind of guy that will get a manager fired.
Outfield:
Brennan Boesch: A. Nice bounceback and adjustment from last season. Let’s see if it continues.
Casper Wells: B. I guess. More production than I thought for this point in his career.
Andy Dirks: B+. See above.
Austin Jackson: B-. Solid defensively, but 100 strikeouts already? Really? .318 OBP leaves room for improvement, too.
Magglio Ordonez: D-. Starting to pick up, but still doesn’t justify the #3 spot in the order.
And again, anyone unnamed gets an incomplete.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Coaching staff and Front Office:
Jim Leyland: D. I don't understand the infatuation with Ryan Raburn, or batting Raburn and Inge back-to-back. The treatment of the pitching staff on occasion boggles the mind as well.
Lloyd McClendon: C-. The fact that this team is as high as it is, statistically, is surprising to me, and a tribute to the job Cabrera, Avila, Martinez and Peralta have done. However, the inability to get Jackson untracked, along with the complete failure of Scott Sizemore at the major league level, are big black marks against him.
Rick Knapp: F. He was fired. I can't give him any grade other than F.
Rafael Belliard, Tom Brookens, and anyone else who works with this team on the defensive side of the game: D-. We are not a good defensive team by any metric. This is not a new development.
David Dombrowski and Co: D. The inability to find a 2nd baseman for 2 years and counting is stupefying, along with the debacle we now have at 3B. We're also a starting pitcher short. Our inability to improve our defensive situation, mentioned above, is another complaint. This crew has also failed to develop any homegrown infield talent that can play everyday, and when they do, we trade it to Oakland for a LOOGY. Kudos for drafting Verlander, Boesch, Avila, and making the trades that brought us Jackson, Cabrera, Scherzer, Coke and Peralta.
Here is my position on the coaching staff: If this team fails to play in this postseason, barring anything completely unforeseen (such as Justin Verlander's right arm falling off his body), the entire coaching staff should be dismissed. If this team really falls apart in the 2nd half, then we've got to take a real hard, honest look at dismissing Dombrowski as well.
Firing another coach this season, even if it is McClendon, is suicide. I still think the Knapp firing was a panic move.
Coaching staff and Front Office:
Jim Leyland: D. I don't understand the infatuation with Ryan Raburn, or batting Raburn and Inge back-to-back. The treatment of the pitching staff on occasion boggles the mind as well.
Lloyd McClendon: C-. The fact that this team is as high as it is, statistically, is surprising to me, and a tribute to the job Cabrera, Avila, Martinez and Peralta have done. However, the inability to get Jackson untracked, along with the complete failure of Scott Sizemore at the major league level, are big black marks against him.
Rick Knapp: F. He was fired. I can't give him any grade other than F.
Rafael Belliard, Tom Brookens, and anyone else who works with this team on the defensive side of the game: D-. We are not a good defensive team by any metric. This is not a new development.
David Dombrowski and Co: D. The inability to find a 2nd baseman for 2 years and counting is stupefying, along with the debacle we now have at 3B. We're also a starting pitcher short. Our inability to improve our defensive situation, mentioned above, is another complaint. This crew has also failed to develop any homegrown infield talent that can play everyday, and when they do, we trade it to Oakland for a LOOGY. Kudos for drafting Verlander, Boesch, Avila, and making the trades that brought us Jackson, Cabrera, Scherzer, Coke and Peralta.
Here is my position on the coaching staff: If this team fails to play in this postseason, barring anything completely unforeseen (such as Justin Verlander's right arm falling off his body), the entire coaching staff should be dismissed. If this team really falls apart in the 2nd half, then we've got to take a real hard, honest look at dismissing Dombrowski as well.
Firing another coach this season, even if it is McClendon, is suicide. I still think the Knapp firing was a panic move.
HuskyNation
New member
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
I can't tell whether the Tiger is yawning or growling in the picture.....
Can't agree with you more on the Grades, Hammer. This will be an interesting second half.
I can't tell whether the Tiger is yawning or growling in the picture.....
Can't agree with you more on the Grades, Hammer. This will be an interesting second half.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
Well, a lot of it was done following today's game. Some of the grades were obvious (Raburn, Inge, Cabrera, Verlander, Peralta), and some were tougher than I thought they would be (Schlereth and Valverde come to mind). Most of the others I did by the seat of my pants with a separate window open to mlb.com and the Tiger stats.
BTW, anyone see how Jacob Turner did today in the Futures Game? I missed it and by the time I remembered, it was too late.
Well, a lot of it was done following today's game. Some of the grades were obvious (Raburn, Inge, Cabrera, Verlander, Peralta), and some were tougher than I thought they would be (Schlereth and Valverde come to mind). Most of the others I did by the seat of my pants with a separate window open to mlb.com and the Tiger stats.
BTW, anyone see how Jacob Turner did today in the Futures Game? I missed it and by the time I remembered, it was too late.
Bronco
Onondaga United IV.6
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
I wouldn't fire Dombrowski even if they do fall apart in the second half, simply because I don't want to see a return of Randy Smith era minor "system". Get a better coaching staff and I think that would be enough. Everything else I'm agree over.
I wouldn't fire Dombrowski even if they do fall apart in the second half, simply because I don't want to see a return of Randy Smith era minor "system". Get a better coaching staff and I think that would be enough. Everything else I'm agree over.
Re: Detroit Tigers, Volume 1 - The Lou Whitaker version
I don't think DD is as much the problem as the field coaching. This team has talent and some obvious holes- but not many teams outside of certain big market teams are solid top to bottom. DD gambled on some trades and flopped- but at worst I think he is batting .500 on those- and it changes from season to season, such as the case with the Grandy for Jackson deal. He stole Cabrera and getting Sherzer was a good deal. His biggest problem has been the long term contract signings sticking him from the long past (Higginson) and current (Inge, Guillen, Ordonez). He is hamstrung from going out and spending $ to fill the needs at 2B, 3B and pitching. Letting Polanco go also ranks as one of the worst decisions he has made- and has only been countered by this season's production by Peralta. Hanging onto Inge and Raburn will further diminish the average fan's perception of his dealings. His FA signings have not panned out for the most part, though.
As far as the field coaching- it's sink or swim in the second half. If they flop, Leyland may resign, as I suggested pre-season. I have zero faith in his coaching staff other than Tommy Brookens who managed well in the minors.
I wouldn't fire Dombrowski even if they do fall apart in the second half, simply because I don't want to see a return of Randy Smith era minor "system". Get a better coaching staff and I think that would be enough. Everything else I'm agree over.
I don't think DD is as much the problem as the field coaching. This team has talent and some obvious holes- but not many teams outside of certain big market teams are solid top to bottom. DD gambled on some trades and flopped- but at worst I think he is batting .500 on those- and it changes from season to season, such as the case with the Grandy for Jackson deal. He stole Cabrera and getting Sherzer was a good deal. His biggest problem has been the long term contract signings sticking him from the long past (Higginson) and current (Inge, Guillen, Ordonez). He is hamstrung from going out and spending $ to fill the needs at 2B, 3B and pitching. Letting Polanco go also ranks as one of the worst decisions he has made- and has only been countered by this season's production by Peralta. Hanging onto Inge and Raburn will further diminish the average fan's perception of his dealings. His FA signings have not panned out for the most part, though.
As far as the field coaching- it's sink or swim in the second half. If they flop, Leyland may resign, as I suggested pre-season. I have zero faith in his coaching staff other than Tommy Brookens who managed well in the minors.
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