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Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
Well, reading the News a few minutes ago, the payroll is going to be higher than it was last year. That's why I don't understand why we didn't tender Polanco, and didn't extend Rodney for another year. Granderson's contract goes up in a hurry after this season, so I suppose you can make a case there.
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WXYT (Valenti & Foster) were discussing the irony of this potential deal with ValVerde. Dangerous to think I agree with that twit, but Valenti is thinking what I was- how can the Tigers feed a "tear down and build up" strategy (i.e. dump salary and stockpile picks/young guys) to their fans, let key players go to FA and trade, then over pay this guy along with a #1 pick?

It smells like contrad-er,desperation.. oh- and the kicker is, the Cardinals are bidding for him, too. Who do you think he'll go with in that scenario? :confused:
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I don't think that $5-6 million, or maybe $7 mil, is exactly overpaying for a closer of Valverde's caliber.

I've made it pretty clear that I won't defend the Polanco ordeal, but I can see trading Granderson. His contract gets steep in a hurry, starting next season. A year from now we could very well have been lamenting another bad contract in Granderson's.

This division can be had with another move or two (I'm looking in the general direction of Orlando Hudson, who is still unsigned and should be relatively cheap), even with this franchise. Look around and tell me just who is going to run away with this division. Chicago's the favorite, but they've got outfield issues themselves, as well as closer issues of their own. Maybe Minnesota, but who knows with their ballpark. It sure as hell isn't going to be Cleveland or Kansas City. Even at 3-5 games over .500, they're going to be in the race until at least Labor Day with that kind of record.
 
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Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
I don't think that $5-6 million, or maybe $7 mil, is exactly overpaying for a closer of Valverde's caliber.
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If you look at it only from that perspective, it isn't, providing he can do the same thing he did in the National League. BUT, the Tigers gave up on a proven closer that would have taken the same dough, without giving up a #1 choice. I saw this guy pitch in Arizona, and he was the same type of pitcher that Rodney is- throws hard, inconsistent, gives up a ton of baserunners, but always seems to escape- and ends up with pretty good save stats.

Hammer said:
I've made it pretty clear that I won't defend the Polanco ordeal, but I can see trading Granderson. His contract gets steep in a hurry, starting next season. A year from now we could very well have been lamenting another bad contract in Granderson's.
Click to expand...

So who gave him that contract that forced this trade? Same with Guillen, Ordonez, Willis, Inge, Robertson, etc. There is no doubt that he didn't earn that kind of contract, but now the Tigers are without a proven CF which is essential at CoPa. This is really going to bite them. If they were going to pull a 180 on strategy and pull in the reins, maybe they shouldn't have traded Maybin.

Hammer said:
This division can be had with another move or two (I'm looking in the general direction of Orlando Hudson, who is still unsigned and should be relatively cheap), even with this franchise. Look around and tell me just who is going to run away with this division. Chicago's the favorite, but they've got outfield issues themselves, as well as closer issues of their own. Maybe Minnesota, but who knows with their ballpark. It sure as hell isn't going to be Cleveland or Kansas City. Even at 3-5 games over .500, they're going to be in the race until at least Labor Day with that kind of record.
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This is the one hope that the Tigers as a whole has- tinker enough, move some other retreads in and patch the lineup. They are counting on the rest of the division to suck so it makes them appear competitive and keep fan interest. To me, the delusion of winning a division that way is like the choice between torture or a quick death. Either way, the outcome is the same, as if this is the end goal-ask the Twins how that worked out. Do they think the fans are that dumb? Then again, Dombrowski patterns his moves from the Marlins... where they compete with unknowns just fine, and nobody in Miami really cares.

Last time I checked, the Twins didn't dump Morneau or Mauer and their pitching was hurt for the most part last season. I'd still consider them the favorites even if they are playing outdoors now.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Good god, Dombrowski, pick a lane and go with it.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Damon would be a nice fit in Detroit. Based on his numbers, it's his favorite park to hit in. I love the Valverde signing as well.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
Damon would be a nice fit in Detroit. Based on his numbers, it's his favorite park to hit in. I love the Valverde signing as well.
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I don't get the strategy. It sounds like Dombrowski is going through traders remorse.

BB, I think you saw enough of Valverde in Phoenix to see when he is on, he is great. When he isn't he is terrible.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
Damon would be a nice fit in Detroit. Based on his numbers, it's his favorite park to hit in.
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Yes. Against the Tigers' pitching staff. Including the first half of the decade.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Local sports radio is reporting that Dombrowski is rebuking the rumor that the Tigers have any interest in signing Damon.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
BB, I think you saw enough of Valverde in Phoenix to see when he is on, he is great. When he isn't he is terrible.
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Isn't that Fernando Rodney?
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Dear Tigers:

Thanks a lot!

Signed,

the rest of the AL Central
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Clifton said:
Yes. Against the Tigers' pitching staff. Including the first half of the decade.
Click to expand...

I think the whole league hit about .472 against our pitching staff the first half of the decade.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

There's yet another rumor floating about that the Tigers might be looking at Johnny Damon.

So let me get this right... Dombrowski gets rid of Granderson because they want to cut back on money yet adds Valverde and potentially Damon? 0% of that makes sense and it'll be less than zero if they put Damon in center.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

0% chance that Damon ends up in center. If they sign him he's the new left fielder. Either Austin Jackson or Casper Wells is going to open the season in center. And if neither one of them is the answer, we're in trouble.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

bronconick said:
Isn't that Fernando Rodney?
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Yes, but it depends on who you talk to. Valverde is a fastball / curveball pitcher. Rodney is a fastball/ changeup pitcher.

Valverde has better ERA and BB's stats, but is just as erratic and wild. Rodney didn't give up as many walk-offs. Both put a bunch of runners on. Valverde has the reputation of getting through innings quickly when he in "on". Rodney likes to make things interesting first, no matter what kind of stuff he has.

Valverde has never pitched in the A.L. and will potentially see better hitting with the DH in the lineup.

Either way the Tigers would have a closer that will help them more than hurt them, depending on the defense behind him.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

GreatLakerMohawk said:
There's yet another rumor floating about that the Tigers might be looking at Johnny Damon.

So let me get this right... Dombrowski gets rid of Granderson because they want to cut back on money yet adds Valverde and potentially Damon? 0% of that makes sense and it'll be less than zero if they put Damon in center.
Click to expand...

Dombrowski has repeated that there is no interest in Damon:

http://www.freep.com/article/201001...browski-Tigers-not-interested-in-Johnny-Damon

Also- Laird wants arbitration for hitting .225? :confused:
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Damon's agent is Scott Boras. Odds are that he's throwing half those rumors out himself.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

The arbitration figures are in for Verlander.

He's asking for $9.5 million.
The Tigers' number: $6.9 mil.

If it goes to a hearing, I'm leaning towards JV's number. If I had to guess they'll settle somewhere in the $8 mil range. If they're going to cut costs, this sure as hell isn't the place to do it.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
Valverde has never pitched in the A.L. and will potentially see better hitting with the DH in the lineup.
Click to expand...

streaker, Valverde is a closer.... the DH is an irrelevant difference as far as the NL is concerned for closers. That is, the NL closers only see legit hitters. The pitchers in the NL will rarely bat after the 8th inning (and most of the time are pinch-hit for as early as the 7th inning). Therefore this is a moot point.

Valverde's ERA and WHIP are both wayyy better than Rodney's. The two pitchers are not even close. Valverde is legit. Rodney is a roller coaster. The Angels may well find that out this year.

Saves is a really worthless category, IMO. So, if you come into a game with a 3 run lead in the 9th... give up two runs... and load the bases and then get the final out you earn a Save? Please. That is a crap outing. Your ERA for the game is 18 and your WHIP is off the charts practically, but somehow this has become some magical stat that everyone has to have if you are a reliever/closer.

Give me a reliever with a sub-3.00 ERA and a WHIP in the neighborhood of 1.100 and I would gladly take that any day of the week over a pitcher with the likes of Rodney's 4.40 ERA in 09 (4.28 career ERA) and his 1.467 WHIP in 09 (1.424 career WHIP).

Valverde was 2.33 ERA in 09 (3.17 career ERA) and 1.130 WHIP in 09 (1.168 career WHIP). Also, Valverde's BB/9 innings is stellar compared to Rodney's (3.5 to Rodney's 4.9 in 09 and Rodney was even worse in 08 at 6.7 walks per 9 innings... wow...that is horrible) and the K/9 innings is also well in Valverde's favor (9.3 to 7.3 in 09).

Just sayin... Valverde vs Rodney is a whitewash in comparison. It is not even close. Saves are an illusion... they really don't tell you how good a closer is. You have to look deeper. Valverde will improve the Tigers' back end of the bullpen immensely and make us a much more formidable team day in and day out entering late innings with leads.
 
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