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Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
The arbitration figures are in for Verlander.

He's asking for $9.5 million.
The Tigers' number: $6.9 mil.

If it goes to a hearing, I'm leaning towards JV's number. If I had to guess they'll settle somewhere in the $8 mil range. If they're going to cut costs, this sure as hell isn't the place to do it.
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Hammer,

If they settle (say at $8m), is that then a done deal just for one year or could/would that possibly be for more yrs? Or, do we have to go through this whole arbitration deal again next yr?
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Arbitration is a one-year deal. They are always able to come to terms on a multi-year extension. If a longer term contract is not signed, he would then be arbitration-eligible next season as well.

All signs point to either a long-term extension that keeps him here until around 2014-2015, or a 1 year deal and then a trade next winter. Guess which one I'm in favor of?
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Malts18 said:
streaker, Valverde is a closer.... the DH is an irrelevant difference as far as the NL is concerned for closers. That is, the NL closers only see legit hitters. The pitchers in the NL will rarely bat after the 8th inning (and most of the time are pinch-hit for as early as the 7th inning). Therefore this is a moot point.

Valverde's ERA and WHIP are both wayyy better than Rodney's. The two pitchers are not even close. Valverde is legit. Rodney is a roller coaster. The Angels may well find that out this year.

Saves is a really worthless category, IMO. So, if you come into a game with a 3 run lead in the 9th... give up two runs... and load the bases and then get the final out you earn a Save? Please. That is a crap outing. Your ERA for the game is 18 and your WHIP is off the charts practically, but somehow this has become some magical stat that everyone has to have if you are a reliever/closer.

Give me a reliever with a sub-3.00 ERA and a WHIP in the neighborhood of 1.100 and I would gladly take that any day of the week over a pitcher with the likes of Rodney's 4.40 ERA in 09 (4.28 career ERA) and his 1.467 WHIP in 09 (1.424 career WHIP).

Valverde was 2.33 ERA in 09 (3.17 career ERA) and 1.130 WHIP in 09 (1.168 career WHIP). Also, Valverde's BB/9 innings is stellar compared to Rodney's (3.5 to Rodney's 4.9 in 09 and Rodney was even worse in 08 at 6.7 walks per 9 innings... wow...that is horrible) and the K/9 innings is also well in Valverde's favor (9.3 to 7.3 in 09).

Just sayin... Valverde vs Rodney is a whitewash in comparison. It is not even close. Saves are an illusion... they really don't tell you how good a closer is. You have to look deeper. Valverde will improve the Tigers' back end of the bullpen immensely and make us a much more formidable team day in and day out entering late innings with leads.
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Valid points, but not a moot point on my part. AL Managers have more lineup flexibility to strengthen it with, as opposed to the NL, even in the late innings, because of the lineup jockeying the NL managers have to do. The DH comment aside, Valverde will see better every day hitters in the AL because their are less lineup changes. For example, even if he is to face an 8-9-1 order with a one run lead, the likelihood of a pinch hitter is the same in either league. But, if he is to face a 5-6-7 order, he will face tougher AL hitters because the DH pushes better hitters down the order. Maybe not as much in the AL central, but you get my drift- especially against the Yanks, Bosox and Angels. JMO.

The NL and AL are different. He's never pitched here before and he'll need to adjust. I've seen him pitch for Arizona and, like I said, when he is on, he's unhittable. When is isn't, it's like BP- rarely has happened the last couple of seasons, but ugly when it does.

I never cared for Rodney, so I hope you are correct.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
The arbitration figures are in for Verlander.

He's asking for $9.5 million.
The Tigers' number: $6.9 mil.

If it goes to a hearing, I'm leaning towards JV's number. If I had to guess they'll settle somewhere in the $8 mil range. If they're going to cut costs, this sure as hell isn't the place to do it.
Click to expand...
Carl Pavano got $7 mil from the Twins in arbitration and Verlander is worth quite a bit more than Pavano.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I'd love to see the Tiges get Bedard and Sheets.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
Valid points, but not a moot point on my part. AL Managers have more lineup flexibility to strengthen it with, as opposed to the NL, even in the late innings, because of the lineup jockeying the NL managers have to do. The DH comment aside, Valverde will see better every day hitters in the AL because their are less lineup changes. For example, even if he is to face an 8-9-1 order with a one run lead, the likelihood of a pinch hitter is the same in either league. But, if he is to face a 5-6-7 order, he will face tougher AL hitters because the DH pushes better hitters down the order. Maybe not as much in the AL central, but you get my drift- especially against the Yanks, Bosox and Angels. JMO.

The NL and AL are different. He's never pitched here before and he'll need to adjust. I've seen him pitch for Arizona and, like I said, when he is on, he's unhittable. When is isn't, it's like BP- rarely has happened the last couple of seasons, but ugly when it does.

I never cared for Rodney, so I hope you are correct.
Click to expand...

Fair points... I only brought it up because I feel the DH does not matter nearly as much to NL pitchers that are closers vs starters. Huge difference for starters, obviously. Thanks for straightening out your take on Valverde and the situation... much appreciated. :)
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

If Gerald Laird hits .300 with good power next season (15-20 bombs), I'll pay off our bet even if we win 140 games. Not only that, but I'll take apart both Zambonis at Joe Louis Arena using nothing more than a toothbrush and a butter knife, and I'll re-assemble them in front of home plate right before first pitch of Opening Day 2011.

This guy couldn't hit water if he was thrown off of a battleship.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
If Gerald Laird hits .300 with good power next season (15-20 bombs), I'll pay off our bet even if we win 140 games. Not only that, but I'll take apart both Zambonis at Joe Louis Arena using nothing more than a toothbrush and a butter knife, and I'll re-assemble them in front of home plate right before first pitch of Opening Day 2011.

This guy couldn't hit water if he was thrown off of a battleship.
Click to expand...
If this happens, I'd like a front row seat, please.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
If Gerald Laird hits .300 with good power next season (15-20 bombs), I'll pay off our bet even if we win 140 games. Not only that, but I'll take apart both Zambonis at Joe Louis Arena using nothing more than a toothbrush and a butter knife, and I'll re-assemble them in front of home plate right before first pitch of Opening Day 2011.

This guy couldn't hit water if he was thrown off of a battleship.
Click to expand...

LO effing L. It will be at least humorous seeing you tonight. (Not that the game won't be.) :D

And believe me, the limb you just crawled out on is.. more sturdy than the one I crawled out on. But, a risk well worth an earned pitcher of suds for you. Even if that tuurd bats .260 with 15 HR's, he'll help that pathetic lineup.

(Notice I didn't place any disclaimers on it, such as the Tigers procuring a LH bat etc. before the season starts.)
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

That's fine. I didn't put any disclaimers on my end, either. Even if Zumaya runs Verlander over with a dirt bike in the parking lot in Lakeland, and Dontrelle Willis beans Miggy Cabrera in an intersquad game, one of us is getting a pitcher of beer at the end of the season.

As for tonight, I have no idea what's going to happen. You watch, they'll only call 3 penalties or something.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
That's fine. I didn't put any disclaimers on my end, either. Even if Zumaya runs Verlander over with a dirt bike in the parking lot in Lakeland, and Dontrelle Willis beans Miggy Cabrera in an intersquad game, one of us is getting a pitcher of beer at the end of the season.

As for tonight, I have no idea what's going to happen. You watch, they'll only call 3 penalties or something.
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Heh. yeah, wait until you see how colorful Valverde is. He'd probably help Zoom light firecrackers in the dugout.


My over /under on PM's tonight is 30. Michigan can't help but crap all over themselves like that this season, and Ferris has enough skill and firepower (like the Michigan of old) to play over their indiscretions.

If Llewellyn and Lebler are in the lineup, chances are they will be the first two to go. It all depends on who the CCHA sends to Yost- probably Shegos or McInchak.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, I do remember watching Jose Lima sit in the pen and interact with the fans, so that could be amusing.

They're likely to send Sergott to Adrian tonight, so I'm guessing Hall or McInchak. It's either going to be very clean or Slapshot-esque.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
Heh. yeah, wait until you see how colorful Valverde is. He'd probably help Zoom light firecrackers in the dugout.


My over /under on PM's tonight is 30. Michigan can't help but crap all over themselves like that this season, and Ferris has enough skill and firepower (like the Michigan of old) to play over their indiscretions.

If Llewellyn and Lebler are in the lineup, chances are they will be the first two to go. It all depends on who the CCHA sends to Yost- probably Shegos or McInchak.
Click to expand...

Michigan 2, Ferris St 0... and thus Ferris clinched the "we are frauds" title they were trying not to believe. Two weekends, two times shut out. :(
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
Heh. yeah, wait until you see how colorful Valverde is. He'd probably help Zoom light firecrackers in the dugout.


My over /under on PM's tonight is 30. Michigan can't help but crap all over themselves like that this season, and Ferris has enough skill and firepower (like the Michigan of old) to play over their indiscretions.

If Llewellyn and Lebler are in the lineup, chances are they will be the first two to go. It all depends on who the CCHA sends to Yost- probably Shegos or McInchak.
Click to expand...
As long as he doesn't join Zoom for a round of Guitar Hero...
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Malts18 said:
Michigan 2, Ferris St 0... and thus Ferris clinched the "we are frauds" title they were trying not to believe. Two weekends, two times shut out. :(
Click to expand...

No, not at all. Michigan may not be "vintage" but they played solid, defensive hockey last night. Yost is still not the easiest place to play. Michigan goes up to BR and wins, then maybe you can pull out that label. I'm not, Ferris has a roster of talented kids that are going to bounce back.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

streaker said:
No, not at all. Michigan may not be "vintage" but they played solid, defensive hockey last night. Yost is still not the easiest place to play. Michigan goes up to BR and wins, then maybe you can pull out that label. I'm not, Ferris has a roster of talented kids that are going to bounce back.
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Streaker... I watched that game last night. Michigan was good...but Ferris did very little to justify their lofty ranking, too. They have now been shut out in two of their last three games and lost all three.

But, I will reserve total judgment until tonight. If Michigan punks them again up in BR, then we are right back to my initial post.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Malts18 said:
Streaker... I watched that game last night. Michigan was good...but Ferris did very little to justify their lofty ranking, too. They have now been shut out in two of their last three games and lost all three.
Click to expand...

And streaker and I were also in attendance. Ferris also played last night without their #2 scorer and #2 defenseman, I'm assuming due to injuries.
 
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