Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

[ticapnews]

I am not comfortable with deplorable ICE prison conditions but I am comfortable with enforcing the legal immigration process. That has never been racist and never will be.

Rounding up Jews was perfectly legal. Hiding them in your attic was a crime.

Legality and morality aren't always the same.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Um a woman won the nomination in the last election.

Haven't you heard? The fix was in.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Rounding up Jews was perfectly legal. Hiding them in your attic was a crime.

Legality and morality aren't always the same.

Neither are ethics and morality. Kant had something to say about this and it was really dumb.

 

[J.D.]

Rounding up Jews was perfectly legal. Hiding them in your attic was a crime.

Legality and morality aren't always the same.

No they are not. And if we could realistically take in everyone who would rather live here than wherever they live now that would be fantastic. But it's not realistic. You clearly live in a fantasy world.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Also, equating rounding up Jews to denying illegal immigrants from entering the country is another absurd comparison.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Um a woman won the nomination in the last election.

She was basically a 90s Republican, she doesn't count. © BernBros, Inc.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

It's one of the reasons she should be winning. Alas, she's a woman and an older one at that. Long shot at best.

some broad was on cnn the other day saying that the sass lizzie exhibits hurts here. that voters want a reasonable candidate.... like THAT will work

 

[ticapnews]

No they are not. And if we could realistically take in everyone who would rather live here than wherever they live now that would be fantastic. But it's not realistic. You clearly live in a fantasy world.

You mean Ronald Reagan was lying to me when he said the doors were always open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here?

 

[ticapnews]

Um a woman won the nomination in the last election.

James Carville said she had balls bigger than Obama so I'm not sure that counts.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

James Carville said she had balls bigger than Obama so I'm not sure that counts.

and look what that got her

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

still not the same as exterminating 8 million Jews and causing tens of millions of deaths overall.

BTW: Obama's record on migrant detention deaths, while better than Trump's, is also not great. There were hundreds of migrant detention deaths year after year under Obama. Fortunately, I don't think they included children after his first couple years in office.

I'd like to see the data to validate the results were similar. We know that Trump ratcheted up detainment (including "zero tolerance" and family separations) and changed existing policies on a multitude of levels.

Trump immigration policy 'unsustainable'

The zero tolerance policy, introduced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions last month, aggressively prosecutes migrants who cross into the U.S. illegally upon apprehension. The policy effectively separates migrant adults and children, as the two are prosecuted separately in court.

Comparing Trump's and Obama's immigration policies.

Immigration under Trump: A Review of Policy Shifts in the Year Since the Election

Among its major actions on immigration during 2017, the administration:

-Banned nationals of eight countries, most majority-Muslim, from entering the United States.
-Reduced refugee admissions to the lowest level since the resettlement program was created in 1980.
-Reversed the decline in arrests of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. interior that had occurred during the last two years of the Obama administration.
-Cancelled the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which is currently providing work authorization and temporary relief from deportation to approximately 690,000 unauthorized immigrants brought to the United States as children.
-Ended the designation of Temporary Protected Status for nationals of Haiti, Nicaragua and Sudan, and signaled that Hondurans and possibly Salvadorans may also lose their work authorization and protection from removal in 2018.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ICE Plans to Start Destroying Records of Immigrant Abuse, Including Sexual Assault and Deaths in Custody <a href="https://t.co/uL1rodFRAm">https://t.co/uL1rodFRAm</a></p>— La Femme Negrita (@LaFemme_Negrita) <a href="https://twitter.com/LaFemme_Negrita/status/1007368047064166406?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MEMORANDUM FOR FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ALONG THE SOUTHWEST BORDER

Accordingly, I direct each United States Attorney's Office along the Southwest Borderto the extent practicable, and in consultation with DHS- to adopt immediately a zero-tolerance policy for all offenses referred for prosecution under section 1325(a). This zero-tolerance policy shall supersede any existing policies. If adopting such a policy requires additional resources, each office shall identify and request such additional resources.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We've just published secretly recorded audio from inside a govt facility where children are being separated from their parents.<br><br>You can hear them screaming.<a href="https://t.co/cEUspwzJR2">https://t.co/cEUspwzJR2</a><br><br>by <a href="https://twitter.com/gingerthomp1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@gingerthomp1</a></p>— Eric Umansky (@ericuman) <a href="https://twitter.com/ericuman/status/1008800749298610176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Natalie Garcia, who watched immigration agents arrest her father, Jose Luis Garcia, as he mowed his lawn: "They are kidnapping people from their home, starting with my father, who has the legal status." <a href="https://t.co/BkIUQFgDta">https://t.co/BkIUQFgDta</a></p>— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1008921198582009856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stephen Miller and a team of officials from DOJ, DOL, DHS, and OMB have been quietly meeting for months to find ways to use executive authority and under-the-radar rule changes to strengthen hardline U.S. immigration policies, Politico reports.<a href="https://t.co/HECGyWxPmt">https://t.co/HECGyWxPmt</a></p>— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1008816656771112960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

At least 3 “tender age” shelters set up for child migrants

BREAKING: “Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border to at least three "tender age" shelters in South Texas

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: I just spoke with the former head of US Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) – He tells me that he expects hundreds of separated children will never be reunited with their parents. They will be lost in the system. Orphaned by the US Govt'.</p>— Jackson Proskow (@JProskowGlobal) <a href="https://twitter.com/JProskowGlobal/status/1009119915348021249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also did they intentionally detain and separate during Obama for the purpose of extorting funding funds for bull$**t initiatives:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sarah Sanders says the White House will not consider standalone legislation to stop family separation. They'll only consider legislation that includes funding for a border wall, etc. <br><br>So yea. The White House just confirmed that these children are, in fact, being used as pawns.</p>— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) <a href="https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1008834507678666754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Should I go on in contrasting the level of evil between the two administrations pertaining to immigration and border security? Never mind that Obama never had anyone like Stephen Miller in charge of what was happening there.

So I'd like to see the evidence it was ever remotely as gross, poorly managed and downright evil in nature during the previous administration. Not arguing it was perfect mind you to be clear.

 

[J.D.]

You mean Ronald Reagan was lying to me when he said the doors were always open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here?

It's a great concept, morally sound. Just not practical. Overpopulation is a real thing.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Slap shot still clearly doesn't understand the difference between, "Obama admin's immigration policy was inhumane" and "was as bad as Trump's".

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

It's a great concept, morally sound. Just not practical. Overpopulation is a real thing.

There are a lot of the areas of the country where overpopulation is not a real thing. I grew up in one of those areas. Unfortunately many of those areas seem to be most opposed to welcoming immigrants, but I think they do so at their peril.

When you look at "outstate" Minnesota, for instance, those communities need people. If you don't have people, businesses shutter, others move away, and sooner or later you become a ghost town.

 

[ticapnews]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

It's a great concept, morally sound. Just not practical. Overpopulation is a real thing.

That must be why rural towns will pay people to move there.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Evaluating overpopulation isn't based on specific areas like that but more the # of people total. I understand what you're saying though.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

There are a lot of the areas of the country where overpopulation is not a real thing. I grew up in one of those areas. Unfortunately many of those areas seem to be most opposed to welcoming immigrants, but I think they do so at their peril.

When you look at "outstate" Minnesota, for instance, those communities need people. If you don't have people, businesses shutter, others move away, and sooner or later you become a ghost town.

Those communities also need jobs. Cities have jobs, rural hamlets don't.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

And to be clear I am not saying shut the borders to everyone. But at the same time you can't take everyone either.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I'd like to see the data to validate the results were similar.

Why would I have data to validate something that I never said? I didn't say they were on the same scale. I said Obama's record was "not great". He deported a lot of people, but also detained many and hundreds died while in custody.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Evaluating overpopulation isn't based on specific areas like that but more the # of people total. I understand what you're saying though.

On a planet-wide basis, yeah overpopulation could become a very real problem. Geometric progression is a biatch.

Those communities also need jobs. Cities have jobs, rural hamlets don't.

I would guess that if you went into every community of less than 10,000 people, certainly in the midwest, and asked civic leaders what they need most in their community, jobs and families would top all the lists (white, northern european families is what they mean by that).

But I don't think this is a "chicken or the egg" kind of question. The people have to be there first. Then the business shows up. You don't see areas where there are brand new manufacturing plants, shopping malls, large box stores and endless restaurants just waiting for someone to move nearby. Those things show up when there are people to fill them.