Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I’d argue we gave our country to the Nazis when Henry Ford, JP Morgan, Allen Dulles, John Foster Dulles, George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush and Averill Harriman all got away with sedition and treason between 1934-1945. The downhill slide since then was “inevitable “ as Thanos would say.

Back to topic
If Sanders is not the nominee I think we’ll see yellow vests here stat and to be honest, that’s about 100 or so years late.

It's never too late.

It's likely a good thing socialism didn't come to America in the 19th century because it was still in its infancy as a theory and it had a lot of serious problems. And Americans, as clever as we are at other things, are not good political innovators.

This way we got Europe to do our R&D for us and now in good American tradition we can steal their IP.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

As for your point about not deriding posters here, the post that literally started the exchange was somebody concern trolling about, "bUt bErNiE's nOt a dEmOcRaT", and I'm sorry but that's more than worthy of derision given what we're up against.

The people who are mocking us are playing to the crowd whoop whoop, not trying to convert us. They have the (wrong) CW on their side so they don't need to proselytize; they just need to jeer and exclude.

We, OTOH, have the new Gospel, and we need to spread The Word. That means getting people to listen, and that means making nice. So it's asymmetric. Life isn't fair. I'd rather be us, right and trying to help them, than them, trapped, and trying to grind us under foot to relieve their cognitive dissonance when cycle after cycle their CW fails.

 

[psych]

We had like 2.5/10 Hillary voters do this in 2008 and Obama still won by a lot proving once again that this narrative is stupid.

Narrative? It’s just numbers. There are a hundred reasons Clinton lost, including the one where Sanders supporters in key battleground states switched to Trump. It’s irrelevant that 25% of Clinton supporters voted McCain in 2008, as they were than eclipsed by the ridiculous turnout Obama managed to achieve. Clinton didn’t even come close to matching Obama’s turnout in places that mattered for Democrats, and thus, the Sanders supporters who switched to Trump were enough to make the difference. I wondered aloud if this was going to matter as much this time around IF Sanders doesn’t win the nomination.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Of course you can find an outlier

4 of the first 5 polls I found put Sanders in 2nd or 3rd against Dump. I have included them below.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Literally all evidence points to you being wrong about this but it's not like facts and logic are your strong suit.

Your moral and mental superiority takes would be so much better if they weren't so covered in ****.
All you sound like is a petulant child.

 

[unofan]

The people who are mocking us are playing to the crowd whoop whoop, not trying to convert us. They have the (wrong) CW on their side so they don't need to proselytize; they just need to jeer and exclude.

We, OTOH, have the new Gospel, and we need to spread The Word. That means getting people to listen, and that means making nice. So it's asymmetric. Life isn't fair. I'd rather be us, right and trying to help them, than them, trapped, and trying to grind us under foot to relieve their cognitive dissonance when cycle after cycle their CW fails.

https://politics.theonion.com/he-s-a-cop-say-bernie-backers-withdrawing-support-a-1841583345/amp

I know you don't believe this particular brand of Bernie Bro exists, but when it's prevalent enough for the Onion to satirize it, you really should believe us that it's a thing.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Clinton didn’t even come close to matching Obama’s turnout in places that mattered for Democrats, and thus, the Sanders supporters who switched to Trump were enough to make the difference. I wondered aloud if this was going to matter as much this time around IF Sanders doesn’t win the nomination.

Then it would be more accurate to ask whether we will run somebody who doesn't have Hillary's problems getting the vote out.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Imagine actually believing that Warren's campaign has been "Grass roots funded".
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elizabeth Warren, after spending last week attacking other candidates for having outside PAC support, gets a new Super PAC that hasn't disclosed any donors, airing ads in Nevada starting this week <a href="https://t.co/xJGHT0C6TH">https://t.co/xJGHT0C6TH</a></p>— Lee Fang (@lhfang) <a href="https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1230001802910801920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Imagine having your staff go on national TV and compare you disclosing about your health to birtherism.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

https://politics.theonion.com/he-s-a-cop-say-bernie-backers-withdrawing-support-a-1841583345/amp

I know you don't believe this particular brand of Bernie Bro exists, but when it's prevalent enough for the Onion to satirize it, you really should believe us that it's a thing.

I'm sure the Idiot Bernie Bros exist. But I think they are 1 in 50,000 -- i.e., the kind of idiot who opponents try to paint all supporters as.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I'll bet I can find one poll where Sanders doesn't have the widest margin.* And even in those polls which show him as the best it's a fractional advantage.

* Very first one I looked at: ABS News / WaPo 2/19:

+7 Biden
+6 Sanders

NPR/PBS/Marist 2/18:

+4 Bloomberg
+3 Sanders

NBC/WSJ 2/18:

+6 Biden
+4 Bloomberg
+3 Sanders

Quinnipiac 2/10:

+9 Bloomberg
+8 Sanders

National polls are worse than useless. Running up huge numbers in New York and California isn't going to translate directly to the White House. We just saw this four years ago. The faster Democrats get this through their thick skulls the better we'll all be. Show me polls in the Midwest, New Hampshire, Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona, etc.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

national polls are worse than useless. Running up huge numbers in new york and california isn't going to translate directly to the white house. We just saw this four years ago. The faster democrats get this through their thick skulls the better we'll all be. Show me polls in the midwest, new hampshire, virginia, north carolina, arizona, etc.

Oh FFS, the guy made a testable assertion and I refuted it. What do you want from me??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I swear it's like people don't want to have reasoned discussions. They just want to shoot off their rhetoric gun.

 

[unofan]

I'm sure the Idiot Bernie Bros exist. But I think they are 1 in 50,000 -- i.e., the kind of idiot who opponents try to paint all supporters as.

I think it's more like 1 in 50, myself. I recognize I have a limited sample size of about 5 full-on Bernie supporters in my acquaintance or better sphere, but 2 of them literally pull the "(other Democrat) is a (racist/fascist/cop)" based on who is polling well at the time or in the news the most.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

"All" is too strong. You and I have a theory. Handy et al. have a theory. Both are defensible and both are susceptible to attack. There's no really strong apples-to-oranges data so both sides can claim to be more credible.

That side is exaggerating and trying to mock and roll over us in large part because they can't get outside their programming which has put the party and country in the position we find them. Let's not play like them. We could be wrong. I would say we're about 70% likely to be right. If Sanders wins the nomination we'll find out, and that works for me.

You and I both understand if we continue on forever the way we're going we are giving our country to the Nazis. But they don't know, so don't act as if they know and are lying. They're just unconsciously riding the rails of a narrative written literally before they were born to stifle their imaginations. Our job is to help them free themselves, and nobody was ever seduced by derision, so stop playing that note.

Wait whats my theory? All I have said for sure is none of these candidates is anywhere close to a plurality and wont be any time soon. I have no idea who can beat Trump nor does anyone else because the field is still too watered down to get a clear number. I do find it funny many of the same Bernie people who attacked the polls in 2016 are using them as evidence now

I have theories about the bots but we wont know the truth about that for quite some time. I hope I am wrong.

 

[ticapnews]

Oh FFS, the guy made a testable assertion and I refuted it. What do you want from me??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I swear it's like people don't want to have reasoned discussions. They just want to shoot off their rhetoric gun.

You're just realizing this now?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Imagine having your staff go on national TV and compare you disclosing about your health to birtherism.

If you idiots (both of you) keep at it we're gonna lose again, and you're going to look pretty clever continuing your preening match over the last sardine tin in the death camp.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Imagine having your staff go on national TV and compare you disclosing about your health to birtherism.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Obama DID release his birth certificate. <br><br>Bernie DID release his health records.<br><br>Get the analogy?<br><br>You might have made a living explaining racism to white people, Tim, but trust that this Black woman who literally grew up in Kenya, gets it. <a href="https://t.co/likjSHOwc0">https://t.co/likjSHOwc0</a></p>— Briahna Joy Gray (@briebriejoy) <a href="https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1230186078805659648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

National polls are worse than useless. Running up huge numbers in New York and California isn't going to translate directly to the White House. We just saw this four years ago. The faster Democrats get this through their thick skulls the better we'll all be. Show me polls in the Midwest, New Hampshire, Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona, etc.

Good thing we have polls of how they'd perform in swing states then in which Sanders fares even more favorably.

 

[state of hockey]

They just want to shoot off their rhetoric gun.

Well, the constitution states we have every right!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

You think you're going to scare anyone with this "they'll say Bernie is a Socialist!" stuff? As if Faux "News" won't convince the cult Bloomberg is a disciple of Marx if he's the nominee. Anyone to the left of Sniffles is a Communist. Reagan wouldn't be welcome in the modern GOP.

Shouldnt you be out "Saving the Republic" so you can come back here and stroke your ego pretending you are a better citizen than us?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Wait whats my theory? All I have said for sure is none of these candidates is anywhere close to a plurality and wont be any time soon. I have no idea who can beat Trump nor does anyone else because the field is still too watered down to get a clear number. I do find it funny many of the same Bernie people who attacked the polls in 2016 are using them as evidence now

I have theories about the bots but we wont know the truth about that for quite some time. I hope I am wrong.

Your theory is a Centrist has the best chance of beating Dump. I'm sorry if I have misrepresented you. I was using you as a model Bloodthirsty Conservadem or whatever it is. I would also have accepted Rover.

 

[psych]

Then it would be more accurate to ask whether we will run somebody who doesn't have Hillary's problems getting the vote out.

Maybe. I think Clinton was a unique candidate in a tragically awful way. I think history has shown that part of winning elections is nominating someone who doesn’t also activate the other side’s base. Clinton managed to drive turnout down amongst her own base and/or switched to voting third party, while also driving up turnout among Republicans. I don’t think Bloomberg or any other Democratic nominee would do the same, but obviously I could be wrong on that.