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Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Kepler said:
So Sanders is bad because he is too revolutionary. And Sanders is bad because he doesn't acknowledge the brokenness we live in. Simultaneously.
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I gotta say, the narratives the last week or so have been hilarious to watch. :)

Look as someone who supported Warren until it became clear she had little chance I see no reason to vote for her now. It is mostly a wasted vote and in truth I want her trounced so badly she drops. Not because I dont support her, I absolutely do! But because we need this to drop down to the final 3 (it should be too but Bloomberg has to ruin everything) and finally get to the meat of this. The longer she sticks around the more likely this goes to the convention.

The Progressives need their Candidate and the Moderates need theirs and they need to fight it out for control. If that means Biden fine but this beauty contest needs to die. The Moderates played it smart they got their "lessers" out and supporting their clear leader. Time for the Progressives to do the same. It was always going to come down to this (maybe not these two candidates but these wings fighting) so lets get it going. Winner take all let the best man win.
 
Handyman said:
2016 Dems: Bernie should accept the finalresults and support Clinton!
2020 Dems: We dont like the early results so we gotta stop Bernie by consolidating around one candidate to get more votes!
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FTFY. Don't be mad that the Dems learned from the GOP's disaster 4 years ago when it came to Trump.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Does Joe Biden have the mental stamina to go through this stuff, and more, between now and November? Does he have the mental acuity to clap back at this debunked nonsense? These are not idle questions, nor are they ageist ones. <a href="https://t.co/P9WgSgL8X9">https://t.co/P9WgSgL8X9</a></p>— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) <a href="https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1234578500251791360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

trixR4kids said:
There's literally no evidence to support this lol. If she got more votes in the primary than anyone on the R side then how exactly is she a guarantee to lose the general?

The reality is the party likes to protect incumbents, especially the more conservative ones like Manchin and even pro-life ones like Tester.

Who do you think pays for all these ads? He also got an endorsement from high ranking dems right before voting happened.He could've voted against drunky mc-rapist too but he didn't. And just blindly waving your arms and asserting something is true doesn't make it so.
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It's math, trix. If Democrats wanted Swearengin to be their Democratic nominee in West Virginia, they would have voted for her in greater numbers than Manchin in their own primary. Quite simply, they didn't. While, yes, as you mention, Swearengin won more votes than any one Republican nominee in their primary, Manchin won around the same number of votes as their top three candidates combined. Your math is correct - and so is the math I used. Based on reading s**t from people who research this stuff for a living, and therefore know more than me, Manchin is considered one of the most popular senators in the country. If the Democrats living there are truly Democrats, like you say they are (and I agree), they're saying, with their vote, they'll stay Democrat as long as Joe Manchin is their senator. By contrast, in the state I have currently lived in for the past decade, Mitch McConnell has dominated senate races here, despite facing some considerable competition. Furthermore, in some of those same polls I mentioned about Manchin, McConnell is considered one of the most unpopular senators - the exact opposite of Joe Manchin. Yet, we just elected Andy Beshear as our Governor, a moderate Democrat, but a Democrat nonetheless. His bumper sticker is on my car, and yard sign is still up near my sidewalk. Amy McGrath's will be going up shortly. My previous car had a Bernie Sanders 2016 sticker on it. I had the pleasure of attending a rally of his here, and I voted for him in the primary. When you live in a state which is ancestrally Democratic, but trending Republican federally (again, Wva and Ky), you take any Democratic win you can get - even if you're a progressive at heart. I would prefer a Bernie Sanders' style governor over my current, more Joe Biden type one, but I'll DEFINITELY take my Joe Biden type governor over the Donald Trump type one we previously had. A few positive things are better than no positive things.

Tl;dr: It's math.
 
trixR4kids said:
The circular argument around Manchin is hilarious. Well if you primary him and the left person beats Manchin then they'll lose even though they were more popular than Manchin! Therefore primarying Manchin guarantees the seat goes to the GOP because this super popular senator lost to someone more popular and this totally makes sense!Nobody proved anything and it's sad that I need to explain this to a lawyer lmfao.
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You do understand there is a different between democrats voting in a primary election and al voters voting in a general election right?
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

unofan said:
FTFY. Don't be mad that the Dems learned from the GOP's disaster 4 years ago when it came to Trump.
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They had an easy solution. As far as I know he's still not a Democrat. They could have forced him to join the party to participate in debates, get on the ballot, etc.

Instead they did this.

• Sanders has signed a pledge to the Democratic National Committee to run and serve as a Democrat if elected president. The pledge is new for 2020, and it stems from questions in some Democratic circles about his party affiliation.
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https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/mar/02/how-can-bernie-sanders-run-democratic-primary-when/

That allowed Sanders to have it both ways. Should have been unacceptable and it would have prevented a lot of shenanigans.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

psych said:
It's math, trix. If Democrats wanted Swearengin to be their Democratic nominee in West Virginia, they would have voted for her in greater numbers than Manchin in their own primary. Quite simply, they didn't. While, yes, as you mention, Swearengin won more votes than any one Republican nominee in their primary, Manchin won around the same number of votes as their top three candidates combined. Your math is correct - and so is the math I used.
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Yes, you're also ignoring the fact that the dem establishment poured tons of money and endorsements into getting him re-elected which wouldn't happen in a scenario where we have a more progressive president at the top with more resources to get people elected down ballot. You're not wrong about the math, you're potentially wrong about what happens if the dynamic changes considerably from what it currently is in which the party puts its foot on the scale to help Manchin win big over a school teacher with minimal resources.
 
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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

trixR4kids said:
You're the one making the case that Bernie voters will only vote for Bernie. That's a sizable chunk of the electorate. If Biden wins then by your theory he's going to lose to Trump. So, if you're voting strategically, and you think the opposite isn't true, it's pretty obvious that you should vote for Bernie in this case if your main concern is beating Trump. Do I need to break this down any further or can a SCCC grad follow this?
Yes a prog democrat beats the super popular unbeatable D senator and then loses in the general because ~reasons~ is a good argument.
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Is your only insult my education?
The point is...for like the 50th ****ing time...is if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, Bernie Bros have publicly stated they aren't voting because to them the process will again have been rigged.
The only group of supporters I have seen this from is the Bernie Bros...you talk about unity, but only for Bernie. THAT is a problem you ****wit.
You claim only Bernie can beat Trump, which is NOT true, but it will be true if Bernie Bros decide to pout like children when their Golden Idol doesn't win the nomination and stay home.
Yeah, everyone else is the problem, not you. :rolleyes:
But go ahead, take more shots at my education...as though that's valid to anything.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
There is no winning by trying to force WV into progressivism. D candidates should be allowed to meet the needs of their constituents. As long as Joe isn’t voting with Rs on the big things.
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Yes Manchin is beholden to his voters as much as he is the Party. As long as he is with us on the big stuff let him do what he has to to stay in office. That is Party Politics 101.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

First Time said:
Is your only insult my education?
The point is...for like the 50th ****ing time...is if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, Bernie Bros have publicly stated they aren't voting because to them the process will again have been rigged.
The only group of supporters I have seen this from is the Bernie Bros...you talk about unity, but only for Bernie. THAT is a problem you ****wit.
You claim only Bernie can beat Trump, which is NOT true, but it will be true if Bernie Bros decide to pout like children when their Golden Idol doesn't win the nomination and stay home.
Yeah, everyone else is the problem, not you. :rolleyes:
But go ahead, take more shots at my education...as though that's valid to anything.
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You've already explained in your own words why only Bernie can beat Trump in your whining about Bernie bros but then keep doubling back and arguing that others can beat Trump too which is why this is hilarious.
 
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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

All you Biden voters are going to feel pretty stupid when (not if, but when) Bernie ascends into heaven and judges the righteous from the wicked. :mad: ;)
 
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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Rover said:
All you Biden voters are going feel pretty stupid when (not if, but when) Bernie ascends into heaven and judges the righteous from the wicked. :mad: ;)
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He'll be seated at the left hand of the Father?
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

trixR4kids said:
You've already explained in your own words why only Bernie can beat Trump in your whining about Bernie bros but then keep doubling back and arguing that others can beat Trump too which is why this is hilarious.
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And you continue to miss the ****ing point, which is sad.
How far up Bernie's *** is your head?
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

trixR4kids said:
blah, blah, blah, blah. And if he doesn't get the nominee then enjoy four more years of Trump lol.
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We may be stuck with Trump no matter what, but stop treating every other candidate as if they're the only lost cause. You want everyone to kiss Bernie's *** while being a smug, condescending d**k toward everyone else. That sounds like a winning formula.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

BassAle said:
Bernie isn't a lock for winning the plurality of delegates.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Today's results should help the model settle down a bit.
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I am not saying he is. The whole purpose of the argument is that Bernie would be in the lead but not hit the number so it would go to the convention which on the second ballot the SDs would obviously block him. I dont like that as a possibility even if I thought they would vote for the candidate I like I would hate it. It is stupid, and subverts the votes of the people. For a Party that loves to talk about how the EC does the same thing and should be abolished that is doubly bad.

If Bernie loses he loses. But let him lose on the votes of the people not on crap like that. You dont get to be the Party that rails against the elites and then let the elites decide.
 
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