Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

[stuckinwi]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.

For UND attendance is not based on who you play, it is based on where you play. Attendance is low for UND away games if the other team's arena does not have enough seats.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.

Here's where you're going to run into issues.

Against non-name brand opponents DU may have 1,000 or more no shows. CC is probably a similar story.

These are season ticket holders who can't give the tickets away. No shoes equal no parking, no concessions and no merchandise.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

I tend to agree with JohnsonsJerseys here. The difference between CC and BSU, on average is 6 people. The difference between CC and UAA is less than 100. The only real "outliers" are Minnesota and Mankato (not including UNO due to sample size). Why is Mankato's average attendance so much lower than say UAA's? Certainly the fan base could care less between Mankato and UAA, and it would also certainly seem that Mankato's fanbase would be able to make the trip to the Ralph far easier than UAA's fanbase, so why is there such a difference? The answer is that UND has played Mankato in the first round of the WCHA playoffs (no student section, generally less-attended than regular season games) for a total of 5 games (or nearly 1/4 of the times we've played Mankato at home in this stretch). The attendance at those games?

8,048
9,258
9,371
9,963
10,288

If you take those games out of the sample for Mankato, their average is 11,342. The amount of games UND has played against UAA in the First Round of the WCHA Tourney? 0.

My thesis is that, at least for North Dakota, it does not really matter who they play, but rather it matters when the game is played, and how good North Dakota is, or at least how good they are perceived to be. This is why Michigan Tech's numbers aren't similar to Mankato's despite the fact that we've played Tech 9 times in the WCHA playoffs at the Ralph. 3 of those series (2004, 2009, 2011) were WCHA Championship years, and the other (2008) we were generally regarded as the top team out of the WCHA.

First, poor attendance at the Mankato playoff games is not unique to Mankato. As I noted in my earlier post, first round playoff attendance is always suspect, as is attendance at other games not typically included in season ticket or student ticket packages.

Also, as I pointed out, UND is not a particularily good example unless you are trying to make JJ's point, given the consistently high fan support.

I just picked out a year of Mankato's home games, 2008. I selected it because they got to play both UND and MN at home, along with Tech, and had a good mix of "haves" and "have nots" on the schedule. If someone wants to pick a different year, please feel free.

As expected for these regular season games, MN was the biggest draw, followed closely by UND. At the bottom were non-conference opponents Princeton and UNO.

3126 for Princeton. 5196 for MN. That's a 66% boost in attendance for those keeping score at home.

Tech was right in the middle at 4213. UND outdrew them by 16% and MN by 23%.

Again, we're only talking about people numbering in the hundreds, but if your total attendance at a game is only 4500, I'm sure all 10-20% increases are greatly appreciated.

I suspect Mankato's experience is not alone, or unique to 2008.

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Average game attendance seems to have fallen off at Michigan State and at Ohio State over the past 10 years.

Competition against other big 10 rivals could boost their attendance. May draw in new fans.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

My thesis is that, at least for North Dakota, it does not really matter who they play, but rather it matters when the game is played, and how good North Dakota is, or at least how good they are perceived to be. This is why Michigan Tech's numbers aren't similar to Mankato's despite the fact that we've played Tech 9 times in the WCHA playoffs at the Ralph. 3 of those series (2004, 2009, 2011) were WCHA Championship years, and the other (2008) we were generally regarded as the top team out of the WCHA.

That is the key right there. I strongly agree. I was at the Gopher/Sacred Heart game because I knew the team would be decent, play well against them, and the timing worked out well for me to get there. If you are not a season ticket holder, timing playes more of a role. Sure you try to make it to the games with the opponents you want to see but I won't hesitate going to a game with a "lesser" team. The only exception is if students are on break and there is no band. That always makes me think twice about going to those particular games unless I know I won't get too many other chances that season.

 

[Mav Fan]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

First, poor attendance at the Mankato playoff games is not unique to Mankato. As I noted in my earlier post, first round playoff attendance is always suspect, as is attendance at other games not typically included in season ticket or student ticket packages.

Also, as I pointed out, UND is not a particularily good example unless you are trying to make JJ's point, given the consistently high fan support.

I just picked out a year of Mankato's home games, 2008. I selected it because they got to play both UND and MN at home, along with Tech, and had a good mix of "haves" and "have nots" on the schedule. If someone wants to pick a different year, please feel free.

As expected for these regular season games, MN was the biggest draw, followed closely by UND. At the bottom were non-conference opponents Princeton and UNO.

3126 for Princeton. 5196 for MN. That's a 66% boost in attendance for those keeping score at home.

Tech was right in the middle at 4213. UND outdrew them by 16% and MN by 23%.

Again, we're only talking about people numbering in the hundreds, but if your total attendance at a game is only 4500, I'm sure all 10-20% increases are greatly appreciated.

I suspect Mankato's experience is not alone, or unique to 2008.

I've noticed in Mankato that while the opponent can make a difference, when the games take place and the team's winning percentage probably have a bigger play in attendence than the opponent. Games played over student break times (Thanksgiving, winter break and spring break) are always poorly attended. Also, last year, almost every weekend there was a home hockey series, the basketball team was also playing at home, so fans of both sports had to choose one over the other. And of course when your team finishes 11th in a 12 team league 2 years in a row, people aren't going to flock to buy tickets.

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Here's where you're going to run into issues.

Against non-name brand opponents DU may have 1,000 or more no shows. CC is probably a similar story.

These are season ticket holders who can't give the tickets away. No shoes equal no parking, no concessions and no merchandise.

Are the attendance numbers DU gives tickets sold or are they tickets scanned at the door?

 

[osualum86]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

OSU doesn't have a large base of dedicated ticket-paying fans. There is a somewhat larger base of fans who care enough about hockey to think, "it would be fun to go to a game. What game would be interesting to see?" When you ask that question, the local hockey rivalry and "That Team Up North" seem much more attractive, especially in an environment where you never have to worry about whether or not tickets will be available. The crowd is bigger, the game is more fun.

I had to overcome this when I started getting serious about college hockey; the big-school bias. As a lifelong Michigan fan I was used to big name schools, even to the point of bias against basketball-only schools in the NCAA basketball tournament. So when I saw a team like "Ferris State" on the schedule I thought lesser of it since I knew nothing about it. Ohio State fans, conditioned to appreciating big football games against teams like Texas and USC and big basketball games against teams like Duke, aren't used to getting hyped up for Lake Superior State.

It's really the same in football, just on a different scale; when OSU and Michigan play, tickets sell for hundreds of dollars. When one of them play Bowling Green, you can get a ticket for $20 on the street.

I tend to agree with you that we do not have a large, rabid hockey fanbase like we do for football. The only difference is regardless of the ticket price, we still get 105,000+ for every football game, regardless of who the opponent is. You might be able to get a ticket for $20 when we play a MAC school in September, but someone buys up those tickets, and the stadium gets filled, regardless of the opponent. Unfortunately, that is not the case for our hockey program. The other side of that coin is that Coach Oz has to continue the progress and put a winning hockey team on the ice that doesn't meltdown in the second half of the season like we have seen in his first two seasons. I am aware that it may take more time and am willing to wait it out. Oz has been a winner at every level and I don't think he suddenly forgot how to build a winning hockey program just because the first two seasons have been mediocre. He has a great goalie coming in who just backstopped the under-18's to a gold medal and we have some scoring coming in, so things are looking up. What I want to see next season is improvement in the second half of the season, not the meltdowns we've seen in his first two seasons.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Here's where you're going to run into issues.

Against non-name brand opponents DU may have 1,000 or more no shows. CC is probably a similar story.

Bovine Excrement. 300 - 500 is the number. When this stupidity first raised it's head over a year ago I ran DU's numbers and showed DG is in full-on exaggeration mode.

These are season ticket holders who can't give the tickets away. No shoes equal no parking, no concessions and no merchandise.

Cos PBD is the best AD in the universe and also a genius at marketing.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

SJH has it correct.

 

[PcFriars13]

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

No way I'm reading through 6 pages of posts, but from my experiences watching games at PC the only times I've seen a large crowd were against BU (opening night, promotion by the school tied with the basketball team) and against BC. Even playing the #1 team in the country at the time (Merrimack) didn't bring students out.