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Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

dggoddard said:
IMO she's one of the best AD's in D-1 sports.
Click to expand...

Agreed. DU has one of the best athletic departments in the country for a school that doesn't play football.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

dggoddard said:
Not only has Denver's population doubled or tripled in the past 20 years, but inspite of the rapid growth we still can't sell out games or educate our fans with simple facts about their own league such as where each team is located. So the challanges that face DU in a rapidly growing Sunbelt city with massive population turnover are different than those schools who's populations are stagnant or declining so we quit your league and started our own.
Click to expand...

I fixed that post for you. Millions of people and you can't even get one half of 1% of them to watch DU hockey on a regular basis? The problem is not who you play - trust me. Schedule 18 games a year against CC and AF and your attendance isn't going to change beyond more visiting fans attending since they are close by.

Ryan J
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

I posted this in the NCHC thread as well. UND home attendance statistics since the current REA opened, broken down by team (games played in parenthesis) are as follows (current WCHA teams in bold):

1. Minnesota 11,785 (22)
2. Michigan State 11,738 (1)
3. New Hampshire 11,728 (2)
4. Nebraska-Omaha 11,724 (4)
5. Notre Dame 11,711 (2)
6. SCSU 11,542 (20)
7. Maine 11,542 (6)
8. Holy Cross 11,492 (1)
9. Wisconsin 11,463 (16)
10. Miami 11,425 (1)
11. Cornell 11,421 (2)
12. Brown 11,413 (1)
13. Denver 11,381 (19)
14. Merrimack 11,369 (2)
15. Colorado College 11,349 (16)
16. Bemidji State 11,343 (12)
17. Michigan Tech 11,330 (25)
18. UMD 11,295 (17)
19. UAA 11,251 (16)
20. Ohio State 11,251 (1)
21. Quinnipiac 11,215 (2)
22. Michigan 11,153 (1)
23. Harvard 10,969 (4)
24. Mankato 10,876 (21)
25. Niagara 10,795 (2)
26. Boston College 10,497 (3)
27. Canisius 10,386 (4)
28. Northeastern 10,333 (2)
29. Yale 10,229 (2)
30. Wayne St. 9475 (1)
31. Findlay 9410 (1)
32. Air Force 8699 (1)
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

So debunking the debunking.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Slap Shot said:
So debunking the debunking.
Click to expand...

If that were the case I would expect that Denver, CC, Duluth, Wisconsin, Michigan, and BC would all be higher than Maine or New Hampshire (or Omaha for that matter). At least for the Sioux, it really doesn't matter too much who they are playing, rather how strong the team is and when the games are scheduled matter more for attendance.

What is interesting though is that more fans have watched Michigan Tech play at REA than any other team (other than the Sioux obviously)...about 25k more than the Gophers.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

The thing is that each school has its own different scenario when it comes to attendances. UND has a huge fanbase behind it already due to years and years of success, compared to DU who struggles to sell out. DU more than likely would need not only to face a big name team, but to upset them and go on a run that could get them into the NCAA tournament.

Also it kind of makes me wonder a little how Penn State's attendance will be for their first year. Think they'll draw in a crowd?
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
If that were the case I would expect that Denver, CC, Duluth, Wisconsin, Michigan, and BC would all be higher than Maine or New Hampshire (or Omaha for that matter). At least for the Sioux, it really doesn't matter too much who they are playing, rather how strong the team is and when the games are scheduled matter more for attendance.

What is interesting though is that more fans have watched Michigan Tech play at REA than any other team (other than the Sioux obviously)...about 25k more than the Gophers.
Click to expand...
Maybe. There are some strange ones, but most have a pretty easy explanation.

Michigan was only there once, and that was an NCAA ticket game, like Holy Cross, so it's hard to judge.

BC was just killed by what was admittedly horrible attendance at last year's Icebreaker (as was Air Force). I assume that has something to do with the games not being part of the season ticket package.

Brown's game came after the X-mas break in the 2002-03 season when UND went undefeated in the first half with freshman Zach Parise. There was a little enthusiasm, to say the least, at that time.

Similarily, Merrimack and Michigan St. benefitted from opening the season (with games that were part of the package). UNO benefited from the "Blais effect".

Denver and UMD were the main surprises to me. It must be recalled that it really wasn't until the Bina incident in 2005 (on the heels of the heartbreaking loss in 2004) that the rivalry with DU ramped up, as did attendance. We had a 3 game playoff series before 2004 that had a 1000 less people per game than normal.

To me, it seemed there is clearly some small benefit to having name programs show up. I suppose if you draw an extra 200-400 a game it adds up after awhile.

But a lot of other things can have an impact too, such as how the team is doing, when during the schedule you see that team, is it part of the season ticket package, etc...
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

SJHovey said:
I posted this in the NCHC thread as well. UND home attendance statistics since the current REA opened, broken down by team (games played in parenthesis) are as follows (current WCHA teams in bold):

1. Minnesota 11,785 (22)
2. Michigan State 11,738 (1)
3. New Hampshire 11,728 (2)
4. Nebraska-Omaha 11,724 (4)
5. Notre Dame 11,711 (2)
6. SCSU 11,542 (20)
7. Maine 11,542 (6)
8. Holy Cross 11,492 (1)
9. Wisconsin 11,463 (16)
10. Miami 11,425 (1)
11. Cornell 11,421 (2)
12. Brown 11,413 (1)
13. Denver 11,381 (19)
14. Merrimack 11,369 (2)
15. Colorado College 11,349 (16)
16. Bemidji State 11,343 (12)
17. Michigan Tech 11,330 (25)
18. UMD 11,295 (17)
19. UAA 11,251 (16)
20. Ohio State 11,251 (1)
21. Quinnipiac 11,215 (2)
22. Michigan 11,153 (1)
23. Harvard 10,969 (4)
24. Mankato 10,876 (21)
25. Niagara 10,795 (2)
26. Boston College 10,497 (3)
27. Canisius 10,386 (4)
28. Northeastern 10,333 (2)
29. Yale 10,229 (2)
30. Wayne St. 9475 (1)
31. Findlay 9410 (1)
32. Air Force 8699 (1)
xx. Western Michigan 0 (0)
Click to expand...

Added in the NCHC to compare/contrast.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
What is interesting though is that more fans have watched Michigan Tech play at REA than any other team (other than the Sioux obviously)...about 25k more than the Gophers.
Click to expand...
23,986 to be precise. :D

We ought to get some sort of perserverance award for that. :p
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

aparch said:
Added in the NCHC to compare/contrast.
Click to expand...
That was a good touch. I should have thought of that.

Can we trade UMD for BSU? :)

I thought BSU's numbers were pretty good, considering that a number of these games were before BSU joined the conference.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
If that were the case I would expect that Denver, CC, Duluth, Wisconsin, Michigan, and BC would all be higher than Maine or New Hampshire (or Omaha for that matter).
Click to expand...

I disagree - Maine and NH are big HEA names, UNO is coached by the beloved Blais and playing them infrequently increases interest. And we're also talking about fractional differences at the top averages, but the teams lowest on the list are in fact the least appealing draws for the most part. That's not a knock on fan support, it's simply life and reality. Don't wear the halo. :)
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

dggoddard said:
IMO she's one of the best AD's in D-1 sports.
Click to expand...
Well she might be smart, but to say she is one of the best AD's. I would totally disagree with that statement, and not just because of her hockey related decisions.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Best example of "it does matter who you play" and also where you play are NCAA Frozen Four games at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena. Several years ago with neither The Wolverines or the Spartans playing in the title game, less than a few thousand attended the game. As I remember it, RPI had goalie Darren pupa & future NHLer, Adam Oates in the lineup. Having a Frozen Four event on a neutral site rink is very risky!!!
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Slap Shot said:
So debunking the debunking.
Click to expand...
Huh? The average attendance is 11,341. The least attended current WCHA team is Mankato at 10,876. So your attendance drops a whopping 3.8% because you played "no-name" Mankato. Whoop de doo. Actually I would say it pretty much proves my point. If attendance dropped even 10% maybe you would have a case.
By the way, how many folks are going to show up and watch bottom feeders of the NCHC Western and Miami (from nowhere close by) after 2 or 3 years when the "exciting new rivals" smell wears off? My guess is about 10,800 fans (or more) per game.... because, say it with me folks... It doesn't matter who you play.
Ryan J
 
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Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

FRICKER said:
Best example of "it does matter who you play" and also where you play are NCAA Frozen Four games at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena. Several years ago with neither The Wolverines or the Spartans playing in the title game, less than a few thousand attended the game. As I remember it, RPI had goalie Darren pupa & future NHLer, Adam Oates in the lineup. Having a Frozen Four event on a neutral site rink is very risky!!!
Click to expand...

I think we can all agree that neutral site games are a whole different beast. You are counting on fans to come in from outside the area. If you get stuck with teams from far away or who don't have fans who travel well, attendance will suck. My point was more about home games and the change in attendance based on the visiting team. You need not look any farther back than this years regionals to see that it really DOES matter in those cases.
Ryan J
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

JohnsonsJerseys said:
Huh? The average attendance is 11,341. The least attended current WCHA team is Mankato at 10,876. So your attendance drops a whopping 3.8% because you played "no-name" Mankato. Whoop de doo. Actually I would say it pretty much proves my point. If attendance dropped even 10% maybe you would have a case.
By the way, how many folks are going to show up and watch bottom feeders of the NCHC Western and Miami (from nowhere close by) after 2 or 3 years when the "exciting new rivals" smell wears off? My guess is about 10,800 fans (or more) per game.... because, say it with me folks... It doesn't matter who you play.
Ryan J
Click to expand...
You didn't look at the list very closely. It does matter who you play. It's maybe not a huge difference, but you have to admit that as you work your way down that list, the "name" of the program generally drops. There are always exceptions, especially with sample sizes as few as just a handful of games.

But just look at the WCHA teams alone. The top 6 are Minnesota, UNO, SCSU, Wisconsin, Denver and CC. The bottom 5 are BSU, MTU, UMD, UAA and Mankato. Really? It doesn't matter at all?

Again, at UND where we've had the benefit of fantastic support by the fans the difference is relatively small. I suspect the same is true for places like Minnesota and Wisconsin. I'd really like to see the difference for teams like Mankato. I've been to Mankato home games in which they've played, Minnesota, UND, CC and Tech. I can tell you from personal experience there was a big difference in crowd sizes at those games.
 
Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

SJHovey said:
But just look at the WCHA teams alone. The top 6 are Minnesota, UNO, SCSU, Wisconsin, Denver and CC. The bottom 5 are BSU, MTU, UMD, UAA and Mankato. Really? It doesn't matter at all?
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with JohnsonsJerseys here. The difference between CC and BSU, on average is 6 people. The difference between CC and UAA is less than 100. The only real "outliers" are Minnesota and Mankato (not including UNO due to sample size). Why is Mankato's average attendance so much lower than say UAA's? Certainly the fan base could care less between Mankato and UAA, and it would also certainly seem that Mankato's fanbase would be able to make the trip to the Ralph far easier than UAA's fanbase, so why is there such a difference? The answer is that UND has played Mankato in the first round of the WCHA playoffs (no student section, generally less-attended than regular season games) for a total of 5 games (or nearly 1/4 of the times we've played Mankato at home in this stretch). The attendance at those games?

8,048
9,258
9,371
9,963
10,288

If you take those games out of the sample for Mankato, their average is 11,342. The amount of games UND has played against UAA in the First Round of the WCHA Tourney? 0.

My thesis is that, at least for North Dakota, it does not really matter who they play, but rather it matters when the game is played, and how good North Dakota is, or at least how good they are perceived to be. This is why Michigan Tech's numbers aren't similar to Mankato's despite the fact that we've played Tech 9 times in the WCHA playoffs at the Ralph. 3 of those series (2004, 2009, 2011) were WCHA Championship years, and the other (2008) we were generally regarded as the top team out of the WCHA.
 
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