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Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

THIS is interesting. Turns out in the full video of Blumenthal's questionable address, he did refer to his service correctly earlier. Hmmm...yet an article was written taking a snippet of video supplied by a potential opponent...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_re_us/us_blumenthal_vietnam

Look, Blumenthal said what he did, it was stupid, and anybody who wants to vote against him because of it has every right IMHO. However, I don't see this rising to the level of "claiming medals he didn't earn" (not sure where that came from) nor the Tim Johnson analogy (the manager, not the Senator) who told hundreds of stories of actually going out and killing people in Vietnam which were all BS.

The stolen valor allegations refer to the creep Blumenthal dredged up to stand behind him at his photo op yesterday. I'm not aware of any such allegations against Blumenthal. I posted a video yesterday in which he said: "when I served in Vietnam." That sort of ends the discussion about whether he was misquoted or not. He has consistently, over a period of years, claimed that he served in Vietnam. He did not. And since he is a politician, seeking ever higher office, these claims are part of his effort to win those offices. Desgined to impress credulous voters that he is something he is not.

And while you're certainly right that there are bigger liars who've told bigger lies, that doesn't absolve Blumenthal. Not one bit. He's a liar, period. 58,000 thousand Americans who DID serve in Vietnam never came home. They are the ones to whom we owe the respect, not a wanna be. And the Clintonian bologna slicing about what he intended to say as opposed to what he actually said is nonsense. He has been making these statements for several years now. When you repeat deceptive statments over and over again it's not "misspeaking," it's lying.

Again, anyone who served during the Vietnam war will make the distinction as between being a Vietnam vet or a Vietnam-ERA vet. I am in the latter category and nothing would ever get me to claim I was in the former category, nothing.
 
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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

58,000 thousand Americans who DID serve in Vietnam never came home. They are the ones to whom we owe the respect, not a wanna be.
The ones who did come home have my respect, too! :)
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

The stolen valor allegations refer to the creep Blumenthal dredged up to stand behind him at his photo op yesterday. I'm not aware of any such allegations against Blumenthal. I posted a video yesterday in which he said: "when I served in Vietnam." That sort of ends the discussion about whether he was misquoted or not. He has consistently, over a period of years, claimed that he served in Vietnam. He did not. And since he is a politician, seeking ever higher office, these claims are part of his effort to win those offices. Desgined to impress credulous voters that he is something he is not.

And while you're certainly right that there are bigger liars who've told bigger lies, that doesn't absolve Blumenthal. Not one bit. He's a liar, period. 58,000 thousand Americans who DID serve in Vietnam never came home. They are the ones to whom we owe the respect, not a wanna be. And the Clintonian bologna slicing about what he intended to say as opposed to what he actually said is nonsense. He has been making these statements for several years now. When you repeat deceptive statments over and over again it's not "misspeaking," it's lying.

Again, anyone who served during the Vietnam war will make the distinction as between being a Vietnam vet or a Vietnam-ERA vet. I am in the latter category and nothing would ever get me to claim I was in the former category, nothing.


I'm only seeing one instance of him claiming to have served in Vietnam, and in that speech he also had earlier correctly identified his service.

Hey - he deserves the grief for saying he was there when he wasn't in that 2008 speech in Norwalk (???) I believe. If that costs him the election, so be it. I'm not sure he's been a serial deceiver but really, a lot of people are going to think one time is enough and so be it if they do. What I will say is I think its 50/50 whether he survives this as opposed to the 0/100 I thought when it first came out, and the opposition might want to consider nominating Simmons instead of Linda McMahon if it truly wants to send Blumenthal packing.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

I'm only seeing one instance of him claiming to have served in Vietnam, and in that speech he also had earlier correctly identified his service.

Hey - he deserves the grief for saying he was there when he wasn't in that 2008 speech in Norwalk (???) I believe. If that costs him the election, so be it. I'm not sure he's been a serial deceiver but really, a lot of people are going to think one time is enough and so be it if they do. What I will say is I think its 50/50 whether he survives this as opposed to the 0/100 I thought when it first came out, and the opposition might want to consider nominating Simmons instead of Linda McMahon if it truly wants to send Blumenthal packing.

As I understand it, these claims go back to at least 2004. Most people who haven't served would not recognize the distinction between Vietnam vet and Vietnam ERA vet, they can be forgiven for that. But someone who did serve, in whatever capacity, cannot be forgiven.

Yeah, maybe he survives this, who knows? He's helped by the fact that he's been a very pro GI guy over the years. But hauling out a hall of fame phony to defend himself is not a triumph of public relations. We'll see. Besides, the people of that state have been electing Dodds (pere and fils) for decades, so who expects them to show any judgement?
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Here is a link to the video where Blumenthal says he served in the Viet Nam era less than 90 seconds before he misspoke. I don't believe that he would intentionally contradict himself in that short a timeframe.

If there is evidence of him repeatedly making this claim it's a problem but I haven't seen it yet. It's important to view the expanded video when judging this incident.

http://ctnewsjunkie.com/ctnj.php
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

I'd agree that Simmons, with his military service, is a better candidate to hammer Blumenthal on that point. However, the Rasmussen poll released today has Blumenthal +11 over Simmons, and only +3 over McMahon. In light of that, maybe McMahon really is the better candidate.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Here is a link to the video where Blumenthal says he served in the Viet Nam era less than 90 seconds before he misspoke. I don't believe that he would intentionally contradict himself in that short a timeframe.

If there is evidence of him repeatedly making this claim it's a problem but I haven't seen it yet. It's important to view the expanded video when judging this incident.

http://ctnewsjunkie.com/ctnj.php

With respect, I submit the "when I served in Vietnam" quote trumps his earlier mention of the Vietnam era. Besides, everyone who served in Vietnam did so during the Vietnam era so the one doesn't automatically exclude the other. Again, lots (most?) civilians don't understand the distinction and when he talks about the "Vietnam era" in one breath and then 90 seconds later refers to having served in Vietnam, the audience will conclude that he did, in fact, serve in Vietnam. That's what he said.

I would refer you to the NY Times articles that cited chapter and verse of his varous prevarications on this subject. As nearly as I can tell, this was not a one time deal, it was part of a pattern.
 
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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

With respect, I submit the "when I served in Vietnam" quote trumps his earlier mention of the Vietnam era. Besides, everyone who served in Vietnam did so during the Vietnam era so the one doesn't automatically exclude the other. Again, lots (most?) civilians don't understand the distinction and when he talks about the "Vietnam era" in one breath and then 90 seconds later refers to having served in Vietnam, the audience will conclude that he did, in fact, serve in Vietnam. That's what he said.

I would refer you to the NY Times articles that cited chapter and verse of his varous prevarications on this subject. As nearly as I can tell, this was not a one time deal, it was part of a pattern.

I think for this incident it would be very stupid for Blumenthal to intentionally contradict himself in less than 90 seconds in the same speech. Say what you will about Blumenthal, he's not stupid.

As for the other times he may have misled or outright lied, I'll wait and see. You may be right and time will tell.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

I think for this incident it would be very stupid for Blumenthal to intentionally contradict himself in less than 90 seconds in the same speech. Say what you will about Blumenthal, he's not stupid.

As for the other times he may have misled or outright lied, I'll wait and see. You may be right and time will tell.

But he didn't "contradict himself." He merely amplified the first remark by claiming he'd served in Vietnam. That's not a contradiction in my book because, as I've said, whether he served in Vietnam or not, he served in the Vietnam era. He did not, however, refer to himself as a Vietnam ERA vet, which I do on average about once a month. A slight but significant difference in semantics, which as I've also said, is lost on most people, but not people who served in that era.
 
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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

With respect, I submit the "when I served in Vietnam" quote trumps his earlier mention of the Vietnam era. Besides, everyone who served in Vietnam did so during the Vietnam era so the one doesn't automatically exclude the other. Again, lots (most?) civilians don't understand the distinction and when he talks about the "Vietnam era" in one breath and then 90 seconds later refers to having served in Vietnam, the audience will conclude that he did, in fact, serve in Vietnam. That's what he said.

I would refer you to the NY Times articles that cited chapter and verse of his varous prevarications on this subject. As nearly as I can tell, this was not a one time deal, it was part of a pattern.
I think you're right, what he said is misleading. However, it's sort of extraneous to his point, no? He's not touting his nonexistent war record as evidence of his leadership or courage or anything along those lines (correct me if I'm wrong - I watched the video you linked, but haven't gone back and read/watched other speeches he's given). Rather, he's using to support his claim that he witnessed the poor treatment of servicemen and women returning from Vietnam. Now, I don't think anyone doubts that that last point is true, since most Americans living in that era would've borne witness to that, but then, given that that was the case, the assertion of his own service is besides the point unless he thought it added weight, and it adds weight because of the misrepresentation that he went through that mistreatment himself when presumably he did not.

Still, regardless of how significant a misrepresentation it is, it's dishonest, and it seems like the only thing for Blumenthal to do going forward is apologize, say he never intended to misrepresent his own service record (whether or not that's the case, that's what he'll have to say), and hope the voters are sympathetic. Of course, at that point it boils down to what Kepler is always saying: people who are predisposed to vote for him are going to accept him at his word that it was an unintentional misrepresentation and vote for him anyway, and people who are predisposed to vote against him are going to believe that he was lying about his record intentionally in order to bolster his own credibility and vote against him, and we'll be more or less back where we started.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

I think you're right, what he said is misleading. However, it's sort of extraneous to his point, no? He's not touting his nonexistent war record as evidence of his leadership or courage or anything along those lines (correct me if I'm wrong - I watched the video you linked, but haven't gone back and read/watched other speeches he's given). Rather, he's using to support his claim that he witnessed the poor treatment of servicemen and women returning from Vietnam. Now, I don't think anyone doubts that that last point is true, since most Americans living in that era would've borne witness to that, but then, given that that was the case, the assertion of his own service is besides the point unless he thought it added weight, and it adds weight because of the misrepresentation that he went through that mistreatment himself when presumably he did not.

Still, regardless of how significant a misrepresentation it is, it's dishonest, and it seems like the only thing for Blumenthal to do going forward is apologize, say he never intended to misrepresent his own service record (whether or not that's the case, that's what he'll have to say), and hope the voters are sympathetic. Of course, at that point it boils down to what Kepler is always saying: people who are predisposed to vote for him are going to accept him at his word that it was an unintentional misrepresentation and vote for him anyway, and people who are predisposed to vote against him are going to believe that he was lying about his record intentionally in order to bolster his own credibility and vote against him, and we'll be more or less back where we started.

Yeah, he certainly could have done worse. And his record for helping GI's should count in his favor. As someone posted earlier, I'd like to see a real apology--"I'm sorry for what I did, it was wrong, and I ask you to forgive me." Not one of those faux apologies--"I'm sorry if anyone was offended by what I did, blah, blah, blah." As usual, it's the people in the middle who'll wind up assessing his wrong doing here and voting accordingly.

Me, I look forward to the day when all this Vietnam service stuff (Bush, Gore, Quayle, Kerry, McCain etc is in our collective rear view mirrors). Wait a minute, that means I'll be in those rear views, too. Hmmm. I think psychologists refer to that as an approach/avoidance conflict.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Yeah, he certainly could have done worse. And his record for helping GI's should count in his favor. As someone posted earlier, I'd like to see a real apology--"I'm sorry for what I did, it was wrong, and I ask you to forgive me." Not one of those faux apologies--"I'm sorry if anyone was offended by what I did, blah, blah, blah." As usual, it's the people in the middle who'll wind up assessing his wrong doing here and voting accordingly.
I agree, a genuine apology is what's called for here.
 
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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

From politico, Rand Paul thinks private business should be allowed to segregate if they choose with no govt interference....
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Paul explained that he backed the portion of the Civil Rights Act banning discrimination in public places and institutions, but that he thinks private businesses should be permitted to discriminate by race.

"I like the Civil Rights Act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains, and I’m all in favor of that," he said. "I don’t like the idea of teling private business owners...."

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Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

From politico, Rand Paul thinks private business should be allowed to segregate if they choose with no govt interference....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul explained that he backed the portion of the Civil Rights Act banning discrimination in public places and institutions, but that he thinks private businesses should be permitted to discriminate by race.

"I like the Civil Rights Act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains, and I’m all in favor of that," he said. "I don’t like the idea of teling private business owners...."

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He's a Tea Party candidate, right? I saw Rachel Maddow interview him last night.


I guess he's a fringe nut job and does not truly represent the movement. After all he wouldn't win an election or anything.
 
Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

That's why I'm struck by all of these predictions so far out before election. Not by us who are doing this for fun, but by the Cook Potical Report, Rothenberg report, etc predicting this and that 6 months before the election. There's three big IF's out there. 1) The economy, 2) the nominees, and 3) how good of campaigners they are. Only some of 2) is known right now, but who knows the rest, especially in Congressional races.

Regarding Rand Paul, it could very well be that his fidelity to his convictions wins him over more people than some of his unorthodox beliefs. He reminds me though of the conservative poster I had an argument with once who didn't believe in the Amber Alert system because he thought it was a needless govt intrusion into a local police problem (child kidnapping). There was no convincing him of the absurdity of his position. Now imagine running for Senate with views like that? As we've all said, this race is going to be real interesting.
 
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