Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Even if you're just restricting yourself to the group of extremists, this is categroically false. But if we actually just close the circle to the people who are uspposed to be taking this seriously -- the elected officials and the side's self-identified opinion makers -- there is no comparison to the GOP circle jerk about "socialism" during the summer or the right wing freaks who are invitged to speak at CPAC and spew their vileness.

There's a streak of authoritarianism in the righty Garden of Eden. It's not the mainstream, but it's there, and ignoring it all these years has strengthened it. You should stop pretending it isn't there, and that it isn't appealed to surrepticiously when convenient.

There are streaks of authoritarianism in lots of places, including left and right. Human history has largely been ruled by authoritarianism, whether the kings and emperors of old, or the modern dictatorships.

I don't get the fixation on socialism. Maybe we have different understandings, but I just don't see it as anywhere near the slam of calling someone a Fascist. To me saying someone is a socialist just means they are more about big government and government involvement in things (to be very brief) or depending on the context, a more virulent form such as Marxism. By comparison, inevitably calling someone a Fascist is trying to link them to being like Hitler or Mussolini or other very vilified figures. I guess part of the problem is that socialism can run across a broad spectrum from very mild, which probably a lot of us wouldn't have an issue with, to pretty virulent, that few if any of us would endorse. I've never heard of mild Fascism or Nazism.

In the end there probably aren't equivalent terms as far as what we've talked about.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

There are streaks of authoritarianism in lots of places, including left and right. Human history has largely been ruled by authoritarianism, whether the kings and emperors of old, or the modern dictatorships.

I don't get the fixation on socialism. Maybe we have different understandings, but I just don't see it as anywhere near the slam of calling someone a Fascist. To me saying someone is a socialist just means they are more about big government and government involvement in things (to be very brief) or depending on the context, a more virulent form such as Marxism. By comparison, inevitably calling someone a Fascist is trying to link them to being like Hitler or Mussolini or other very vilified figures. I guess part of the problem is that socialism can run across a broad spectrum from very mild, which probably a lot of us wouldn't have an issue with, to pretty virulent, that few if any of us would endorse. I've never heard of mild Fascism or Nazism.

But the people screaming "socialist" have something very dark in mind. That's the whole point of screaming it. Also, as a nation we only recently emerged from 70 years of full-bore propaganda where anybody on your left was decried as a com-symp and a Rusky America-hater. That was an awful lot of brainwashing and plenty of people are still all wet with it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

If you'll accept Ahmadinejad as a GOP equivalent. He's big on defense of marriage, I hear.

And Dems aren't superior. We aren't even smarter. We're just better educated and we've seen around the corners you guys are still stuck on. But hey, sometimes I need my tires rotated, so we're cool with you folks too.

Also, and this is hard to admit, your daughters tend to be prettier. And easier.

Dems are better educated and have seen around corners others are stuck on? Oh, brother! Where's the smiley? I don't believe you actually believe this.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Dems are better educated and have seen around corners others are stuck on? Oh, brother! Where's the smiley? I don't believe you actually believe this.

There's a smiley right there, Bob. It's even in your quote.

 

[geezer]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

If you'll accept Ahmadinejad as a GOP equivalent. He's big on defense of marriage, I hear.

And Dems aren't superior. We aren't even smarter. We're just better educated and we've seen around the corners you guys are still stuck on. But hey, sometimes I need my tires rotated, so we're cool with you folks too.

Also, and this is hard to admit, your daughters tend to be prettier. And easier.

oops. "More" educated, not "better".
Prettier daughters? THAT'S RACI.... wait, what?

 

[unofan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

The angst against Obama isn't close to the vitriol that was poured on Bush.

Oh please. The Left vilified Bush, but the Right is doing the same ***** thing to Obama. His race and alleged-religion (He's a Muslin!!!) just add to the derp factor.

To say it's not even close is looking through rose-colored eyes.

 

[geezer]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Oh please. The Left vilified Bush, but the Right is doing the same ***** thing to Obama. His race and alleged-religion (He's a Muslin!!!) just add to the derp factor.

To say it's not even close is looking through rose-colored eyes.

I've heard far more mention of Obama's race and alleged religious allegiance from lefties' accusations than from righties (case in point above). Maybe it's just the company I keep. We even had a lib here on the board posting up some of those false racist posters that libs made to look the tea parties look bad, as if the tea parties created them.
edit: if you missed it, this was in the news a few months ago where the decree came down from on high in the democrat party that liberals should make the most horribly racist posters they could dream up, go to tea party rallies, and get on TV. A bunch of these Dem-created posters have been circulating on the internets since as "proof" that tea parties are all about racism.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

But the people screaming "socialist" have something very dark in mind. That's the whole point of screaming it. Also, as a nation we only recently emerged from 70 years of full-bore propaganda where anybody on your left was decried as a com-symp and a Rusky America-hater. That was an awful lot of brainwashing and plenty of people are still all wet with it.

I don't think you can paint such a broad brush. I'm sure some have darker things in mind when using the term, but I'm sure a lot of the time, it's just saying he's for big government and all, something to be opposed, but hardly along the lines of being compared to a number of monstrous dictators in the 20th century who were responsible for the deaths of many millions and untold suffering.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Oh please. The Left vilified Bush, but the Right is doing the same ***** thing to Obama. His race and alleged-religion (He's a Muslin!!!) just add to the derp factor.

To say it's not even close is looking through rose-colored eyes.

I frequent significant circles of both conservative and liberal folks. I don't hear anywhere near the talk about Obama now as I did a few years back when Bush was in power. Maybe the conservatives and libs I know are in some way not representative, but I expect they are.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Don't you people know sanity was restored on Saturday?

In happier news, Paul Krugman is feeling pretty optimistic

This is going to be terrible. In fact, future historians will probably look back at the 2010 election as a catastrophe for America, one that condemned the nation to years of political chaos and economic weakness.

Gee Paul, tell us how you really feel.

 

[unofan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I frequent significant circles of both conservative and liberal folks. I don't hear anywhere near the talk about Obama now as I did a few years back when Bush was in power. Maybe the conservatives and libs I know are in some way not representative, but I expect they are.

I've got family and close friends of family throughout the country. Some are in parts of the country that would make deliverance seem urban by comparison.

They may not flat out say certain things when talking about Obama, but anyone who can read between the lines knows they're simply dancing around the giant elephant in their thoughts.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I spend a lot of time around college campuses - I heard a lot of extremist rhetoric re: Bush. No question.

I haven't noticed a ton of difference in the amount of extreme rhetoric that I hear around me. I *have* noticed a difference in the amount of loony accusations made by actual officeholders and party officials.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Any examples besides Gingrich and a few no name Congresspeople? I'm honestly asking. Because I'm not sure I'd call Gingrich a "party official". He's a guy who desperately wants to run for President, trying to appeal to a portion of the base.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Any examples besides Gingrich and a few no name Congresspeople? I'm honestly asking. Because I'm not sure I'd call Gingrich a "party official". He's a guy who desperately wants to run for President, trying to appeal to a portion of the base.

Michelle Bachmann
Sarah Palin
Tim Pawlenty
Etc, etc, etc.

We've rejected socialism starting tomorrow. Now if we can just get the government out of our Medicare we'll be good.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Michelle Bachmann
Sarah Palin
Tim Pawlenty
Etc, etc, etc.

We've rejected socialism starting tomorrow. Now if we can just get the government out of our Medicare we'll be good.

Did Palin and T-Paw call him a socialist? If they did, I honestly missed it. As for Bachmann, that's overheated obviously, but my point is, is she any different from Dennis Kucinich saying crazy things about Bush?

And if Palin did, I'm not sure I'd call her a "party leader."

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Did Palin and T-Paw call him a socialist? If they did, I honestly missed it. As for Bachmann, that's overheated obviously, but my point is, is she any different from Dennis Kucinich saying crazy things about Bush?

And if Palin did, I'm not sure I'd call her a "party leader."

You wouldn't call Palin a party leader? You're about the only one.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

You wouldn't call Palin a party leader? You're about the only one.

She was only Governor of a state, the VP pick of her party and a potential candidate in 2012...just a bit player, really.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

You wouldn't call Palin a party leader? You're about the only one.

Maybe it's semantics, but she has no official role within the party. She is, for better or worse, just a woman from Alaska. An influential one, but just that. I took amherst's comment to be implying that there were people in GOP leadership and in Congress making these claims, and I haven't really seen that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Maybe it's semantics, but she has no official role within the party. She is, for better or worse, just a woman from Alaska. An influential one, but just that. I took amherst's comment to be implying that there were people in GOP leadership and in Congress making these claims, and I haven't really seen that.

Well, you do like splitting hairs. Just like Bob.

I still won't call Bush II a fascist even though he deserves it if Obama deserves his label.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I've got family and close friends of family throughout the country. Some are in parts of the country that would make deliverance seem urban by comparison.

They may not flat out say certain things when talking about Obama, but anyone who can read between the lines knows they're simply dancing around the giant elephant in their thoughts.

Well, it's been awhile since I saw people I know be careful to dance around their thoughts about Bush if they are of the liberal persuasion. So there you have a bit of difference right there. Plus, I'm not sure your deliverance friends and family are directly comparable to the vast majority of conservative folks who live in more um, developed, areas.