Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

You're moving the goalposts when you include all gun deaths.

The question that I *think* we're discussing is: would a de facto tax on guns to make them incrementally (to avoid running afoul of McCulloch) more expensive reduce the number of mass shootings in the US (a la San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc)?

I just can't see an affirmative answer to that question. Those sort of shooters are determined enough that an incremental reduction in gun ownership just isn't going to make any difference. Guns would have to become extremely scarce (say, less than 20% of the total guns we have on the streets now) before those outliers are going to have any trouble at all obtaining them. The only honest arguments I've heard against this are "but we have to do something" and "won't someone think of the children."

Again, I'd be perfectly happy if measures could be put into place to hit that 20% target, which would undoubtedly need to start with a Constitutional amendment and then proceed to new laws and regulations all the way down to the municipal level. I just don't see the efficacy of half measures in this situation.

Didn't know that the goalposts were being moved. But if that's the game...then...

Its probably more difficult to find definitive data regarding mass shootings. That's because mass shootings require more planning and aren't either accidents or not likely spur of the moment occurances. So acquiring a weapon of choice is probably a worthwhile endeavor if that's you goal. I would figure that unless you ban guns you probably won't stop the majority of mass shootings. You might stop one.

Having said that, the impact of a gun death is the same of a gun death from a different source. We are more likely to hear about 10 people in one event than the 10 that were shot in St. Louis last night. The real benefit of gun control is for isolated gun deaths whether accidents, spur of the moment and even premeditated.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Why must those issues you cited fall into the same category?

Abortion -- privacy -- First Amendment*
Gay Marriage -- equal protection -- Fourteenth Amendment
Gun Ownership -- explicitly defined -- Second Amendment

All seem like Constitutionally protected rights (including judicial imprimatur).


*Kep notes he might say Fourteenth here (equal protection). I'd say Fourth, the right to be secure in your person. --> How the heck does the Gov't know if a woman is pregnant**?


**Bill Clinton joke here?

 

[unofan]

You keep spending yours on the subscription to "Mother Jones".

I get that you don't like guns. I don't know your life experiences so I don't know why. I do know mine.

I've been in a Kwik-E-Mart* when a fool puts a gun into Apu's* face. I know I was < bleep > glad when an off-duty security officer from a local facility (that I knew personally) was there to encourage** the lawless one to cease and desist through an equal showing of force. I do know I've looked into the eyes of rabid coyote in a farm yard.

You think gun and think scary or bad.
I think gun and think hammer or shovel, just another implement that can be used properly or improperly.


*Shameless "Simpson's" references to protect identities
**A .40 cal at the back of your skull is highly encouraging I guess

A gun is not scary. 300,000,000 guns in the hands of people so gullible that they need to stock up before the gubmit comes and takes them away is what's scary.

People who can barely chew their own food are allowed to buy as many guns as they want because why the hell not. That's what bothers me.

 

[unofan]

You feelin' OK there Kep? For a second there you sounded like a Tenth Amendment state's rights-er there for a minute. And that wouldn't jive with your beliefs because then other social issues would fall into said category. See: gay marriage, abortion.

Marriage is clearly the 14th. See Loving v. Virginia. But good try.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

A gun is not scary. 300,000,000 guns in the hands of people so gullible that they need to stock up before the gubmit comes and takes them away is what's scary.

People who can barely chew their own food are allowed to buy as many guns as they want because why the hell not. That's what bothers me.

The condescending tone ... as you say, what are you "compensating" for?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

A gun is not scary. 300,000,000 guns in the hands of people so gullible that they need to stock up before the gubmit comes and takes them away is what's scary.

People who can barely chew their own food are allowed to buy as many guns as they want because why the hell not. That's what bothers me.

Its kinda like people in the opposing political party. Many are pretty cool...but there are a few freaks. With gun owners, many are cool. Some I've even met have a strange power/anger thing going on. Normal rationality seems to not be the same in some of these people. It can happen for non gun owners...but with gun owners there's implied threat tied to it due to capability.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

The condescending tone ... as you say, what are you "compensating" for?

uhhh...earlier you called for a proficiency test to qualify people as worthy to express their opinion on guns...

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So what do people think about this? Any compelling reason not to let the kid make a fool of himself?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

uhhh...earlier you called for a proficiency test to qualify people as worthy to express their opinion on guns...

I'm not saying: "Compare and contrast hammer fired versus striker fired semi-automatic handguns. Include in your discussion single action/double action mechanisms in comparison to double action only."

I'm saying:
"What's the difference between automatic and semi-automatic?"
or
A "Glock" is:
(a) a caliber
(b) a style
(c) a manufacturer
(d) a generic term for "handgun"



In internet political chats the equivalent would be: "What is the First Amendment?"

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So what do people think about this? Any compelling reason not to let the kid make a fool of himself?

Funny thing is, I know Andy Dahlen. (He's a former UND linebacker; his son played linebacker at UND also.) Andy is pretty level headed. And he runs a good school. (I'd say it's the best public HS in Fargo-Moorhead of the six.)

I going to default to one of my "internet age" rules: Any time you hear a parent complaining on social media about how their little darling was wronged, go with the other side.

 

[walrus]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

A gun is not scary. 300,000,000 guns in the hands of people so gullible that they need to stock up before the gubmit comes and takes them away is what's scary..

You want to take those guns away, correct? Whats makes them gullible?

 

[unofan]

You want to take those guns away, correct? Whats makes them gullible?

That they think the government is actually going to ban guns outright when Kagan goes shooting with Scalia and Bernie Sanders is protecting the rights of his hunters in Vermont.

They're gullible because they're buying the load of horse hockey the NRA is selling, and the gun manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Jimjamesak]

You keep spending yours on the subscription to "Mother Jones".

I get that you don't like guns. I don't know your life experiences so I don't know why. I do know mine.

I've been in a Kwik-E-Mart* when a fool puts a gun into Apu's* face. I know I was < bleep > glad when an off-duty security officer from a local facility (that I knew personally) was there to encourage** the lawless one to cease and desist through an equal showing of force. I do know I've looked into the eyes of rabid coyote in a farm yard.

You think gun and think scary or bad.
I think gun and think hammer or shovel, just another implement that can be used properly or improperly.


*Shameless "Simpson's" references to protect identities
**A .40 cal at the back of your skull is highly encouraging I guess

There is a stark difference between a gun and a shovel. A gun can have many uses, such a legitimate sporting uses, but first and foremost it is a tool designed to kill. That is the crux of the issue, we seek to regulate tools designed primarily to kill.

All the gun in the first situation did was escalate the danger. If he hadn't been there what would've likely happened? Cash would've been handed over and police would've likely caught the suspect. All that guy did was drastically increase the chances of TWO people being dead.

For the coyotes I ask two questions: 1) Are you being forced to live at this locale? (I look at it as the same as moving to near an airport, you know the coyotes are there, that is the risk you take) 2) Have you taken any measures beyond just owning a gun to protect yourself? Fences? Secured trash cans? Repellants? Working with local fish & wildlife agencies? Because in Alaska, all of those would be asked about if you shot an animal on your property.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

For the coyotes I ask two questions: 1) Are you being forced to live at this locale? (I look at it as the same as moving to near an airport, you know the coyotes are there, that is the risk you take) 2) Have you taken any measures beyond just owning a gun to protect yourself? Fences? Secured trash cans? Repellants? Working with local fish & wildlife agencies? Because in Alaska, all of those would be asked about if you shot an animal on your property.

ND Game and Fish? They acknowledge the problem and have no solutions. The 'yotes are living on the local wildlife in the shelter belts (tree lines) in the region. If you live in the rural areas or outer edges of cities you're stuck with them.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

There is a stark difference between a gun and a shovel. A gun can have many uses, such a legitimate sporting uses, but first and foremost it is a tool designed to kill. That is the crux of the issue, we seek to regulate tools designed primarily to kill.

A gun is designed to propel a projectile. What the operator does with it, where they aim, it is the question.

All the gun in the first situation did was escalate the danger.

You say escalate; I say neutralize.

 

[Jimjamesak]

ND Game and Fish? They acknowledge the problem and have no solutions. The 'yotes are living on the local wildlife in the shelter belts (tree lines) in the region.

So have you taken any steps, beyond a gun, to rectify this? I mean you use this in your arguments as a main reason why you need to own a gun that I assume this is a serious issue to you?

 

[Jimjamesak]

A gun is designed to propel a projectile. What the operator does with it, where they aim, it is the question.

That's a pretty pedantic definition. Fine, what is wrong with regulating said operators? What are those projectiles designed to do? Destroy their target? I.e. kill?

You say escalate; I say neutralize.

So do you deny that he increased the possibility of the robber panicking and shooting the clerk?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So what do people think about this? Any compelling reason not to let the kid make a fool of himself?

I'd love to say let him since it will prevent him from reproducing. But I'm not that naive.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So have you taken any steps, beyond a gun, to rectify this? I mean you use this in your arguments as a main reason why you need to own a gun that I assume this is a serious issue to you?

The cost of a fence vs. the cost of a gun, the gun wins. A simple fence around a ten-acre plot of land will run $10K or more because you'll have to electrify it, similar to what the MN DNR told my brother about the fence he was looking into building around his hobby farm where he's going to keep sheep. There is a difference in that he's dealing with wolves, but the same principles are in place only the dogs are a different size in the Sicatoka's situation.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

guns don't kill people
i kill people

(maybe best t-shirt ever)