Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

[Jimjamesak]

I always think it's funny when people say, "it works in Australia" or "it works in Indonesia". It's like asking why two lane highways and no stoplights won't work in Minneapolis when they work great in Gwinner, ND.

Guns are not like traffic controls and America is not a special snowflake. We can't exactly clone America and institute strict gun control to go "see! It works!" so we have to use other countries as examples. And it's always scoffed at because it *ing works! I'm sick and *ing tired of people going "we can't do that because it'll never work in America, it's different here." It's the argument against every progressive proposal. Health care, gun control, campaign finance reform, labor protections, all are met with "we can't do that, it'll never work, America is different." Like we're the only country in the world with an urban/rural divide or dangerous wildlife or climate differences or cultural division. We're not special, we're not unique, we're not "different". We're just lazy and unwilling to try things because 'Murica.

 

[walrus]

Guns are not like traffic controls and America is not a special snowflake. We can't exactly clone America and institute strict gun control to go "see! It works!" so we have to use other countries as examples. And it's always scoffed at because it *ing works! I'm sick and *ing tired of people going "we can't do that because it'll never work in America, it's different here." It's the argument against every progressive proposal. Health care, gun control, campaign finance reform, labor protections, all are met with "we can't do that, it'll never work, America is different." Like we're the only country in the world with an urban/rural divide or dangerous wildlife or climate differences or cultural division. We're not special, we're not unique, we're not "different". We're just lazy and unwilling to try things because 'Murica.

Once you "try" things you aren't going back.

 

[unofan]

Once you "try" things you aren't going back.

Then admit that's why you don't want to do it, rather than claiming some pseudo 'Murican exceptionalism. Because the latter is pure, grade A horse hockey.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So you're not a gun zealot, but this is how the gun zealots handle this argument. The data's 'not compelling'. So now that that's been decided, there's nothing to talk about.

States with high gun ownership and the most gun deaths mirror each other.

http://qz.com/437015/mapped-the-us-states-with-the-most-gun-owners-and-most-gun-deaths/

States with the most muslims and the most gun deaths are nearly the opposite.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...logs/govbeat/files/2015/02/1Muslim.png&w=1484

You're moving the goalposts when you include all gun deaths.

The question that I *think* we're discussing is: would a de facto tax on guns to make them incrementally (to avoid running afoul of McCulloch) more expensive reduce the number of mass shootings in the US (a la San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc)?

I just can't see an affirmative answer to that question. Those sort of shooters are determined enough that an incremental reduction in gun ownership just isn't going to make any difference. Guns would have to become extremely scarce (say, less than 20% of the total guns we have on the streets now) before those outliers are going to have any trouble at all obtaining them. The only honest arguments I've heard against this are "but we have to do something" and "won't someone think of the children."

Again, I'd be perfectly happy if measures could be put into place to hit that 20% target, which would undoubtedly need to start with a Constitutional amendment and then proceed to new laws and regulations all the way down to the municipal level. I just don't see the efficacy of half measures in this situation.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

You're moving the goalposts when you include all gun deaths.

The question that I *think* we're discussing is: would a de facto tax on guns to make them incrementally (to avoid running afoul of McCulloch) more expensive reduce the number of mass shootings in the US (a la San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc)?

I just can't see an affirmative answer to that question. Those sort of shooters are determined enough that an incremental reduction in gun ownership just isn't going to make any difference. Guns would have to become extremely scarce (say, less than 20% of the total guns we have on the streets now) before those outliers are going to have any trouble at all obtaining them. The only honest arguments I've heard against this are "but we have to do something" and "won't someone think of the children."

Again, I'd be perfectly happy if measures could be put into place to hit that 20% target, which would undoubtedly need to start with a Constitutional amendment and then proceed to new laws and regulations all the way down to the municipal level. I just don't see the efficacy of half measures in this situation.

Here is why I support half measures, which they admittedly are. I will further admit that the efficacy of those measures will be years in the making. Few of us will be alive to see the results. However, I believe it's the only solution.

You are not going to get an amendment passed. I don't care how many of these shootings occur. There are what, 250 million guns in this country owned by how many different people? We couldn't get an amendment passed declaring equal rights for women, for crying out loud. And that was ages before we reached the polarized state of politics that we are in now.

So that means we have two choices. We can choose the half measures I propose now, and wait for those measures, others that come after, and general changing demographics to slowly reduce interest or demand for guns in this country, or, we can continue to sit and whine that we need to pass a constitutional amendment, with nothing being done.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

We could start by getting the republicans and NRA to stop with the "OMG that muslim Obama is going to make owing guns (and a bible) illegal!!!!!! You better buy all the AR-15s you can afford right now and be ready to defend your 2nd amendment rights!!!!" Millions of guns are being sold every year, and its the SAME PEOPLE buying them over and over. Rednecks: you have enough guns now. Let it go.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

We could start by getting the republicans and NRA to stop with the "OMG that muslim Obama is going to make owing guns (and a bible) illegal!!!!!!

You have a better chance at repealing the second amendment

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

We could start by getting the republicans and NRA to stop with the "OMG that muslim Obama is going to make owing guns (and a bible) illegal!!!!!! You better buy all the AR-15s you can afford right now and be ready to defend your 2nd amendment rights!!!!" Millions of guns are being sold every year, and its the SAME PEOPLE buying them over and over. Rednecks: you have enough guns now. Let it go.

What's funny is you guys are as much to blame for the problem as anyone else.

Every tweet, every blog article, every NY Times editorial or Rachel Maddow rant demonizing gun owners or 2nd Amendment supporters are as much to blame for the demand as the people actually buying the guns. Is it crazy to think Obama is going to take away peoples guns? Yes. If you tell those people they are crazy and they need to be stopped or laws should be changed to address their crazy behavior, are you helping the problem? No. No you are not. You are reaffirming their beliefs and encouraging them to buy even more guns.

It's funny how many of the same people who recognize that Donald Trump's statements demonizing Muslims actually makes it more dangerous for us can't see their same conduct regarding gun owners does the same.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

I always think it's funny when people say, "it works in Australia" or "it works in Indonesia". It's like asking why two lane highways and no stoplights won't work in Minneapolis when they work great in Gwinner, ND.

Don't be hatin' on Gwinner.

No Bobcat for you!

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

There are what, 250 million guns in this country owned by how many different people?

You're probably low by 50 million with that number.

There have been 100 million guns sold in the US since Mr. Obama took office. Or as the folks that sell guns say, "Mr. Obama is our best salesperson."

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

We could start by getting the republicans and NRA to stop with the "OMG that muslim Obama is going to make owing guns (and a bible) illegal!!!!!! You better buy all the AR-15s you can afford right now and be ready to defend your 2nd amendment rights!!!!" Millions of guns are being sold every year, and its the SAME PEOPLE buying them over and over. Rednecks: you have enough guns now. Let it go.

Mr. Obama created his own mess and environment with his "cling to guns and religion" comments.

In honor of this thread I went out and bought another of the make and model I already carry ... right after church last Sunday.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

You're probably low by 50 million with that number.

There have been 100 million guns sold in the US since Mr. Obama took office. Or as the folks that sell guns say, "Mr. Obama is our best salesperson."

The gun lobby, like the Echo Chamber, should donate to the DNC. They've monetized the persecution complex.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Mr. Obama created his own mess and environment with his "cling to guns and religion" comments.

Right, because that paranoia (and the industry that milks it) didn't exist before then.

Plus, he was, you know, right.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

We could start by getting the republicans and NRA to stop with the "OMG that muslim Obama is going to make owing guns (and a bible) illegal!!!!!! You better buy all the AR-15s you can afford right now and be ready to defend your 2nd amendment rights!!!!" Millions of guns are being sold every year, and its the SAME PEOPLE buying them over and over. Rednecks: you have enough guns now. Let it go.

Some estimates on the trending percentage of gun ownership.

I'd love to see demographic cross-tabs.

Imagine what Republicans would do if black and brown people were amassing arsenals and mouthing violent, racist and anti-democratic rhetoric. It would be a dangerous crisis. But not this -- this is just 'Murica bein' free!

 

[geezer]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Some estimates on the trending percentage of gun ownership.

I'd love to see demographic cross-tabs.

That poll does not have even a snowball's chance of being accurate. I'm less paranoid than some gun owners, but there's no way I'm answering those questions honestly over the phone or without a served search warrant.
Do you guys have any recommendations for a semi-auto sidearm that's not too costly? I'm not going to conceal it, but just something to strap on when I'm berry picking, and for plinking.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Some estimates on the trending percentage of gun ownership.

I laugh at the GSS question: " ... guns or revolvers." What is a revolver but a gun?

I've long said there should be a ten question quiz about firearms you have to take and pass before you can make silly statements about guns.
Without that we have stuff like this: http://c1.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/BUYCQ_tCAAA0JYk.jpg-large.jpeg

 

[geezer]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

I laugh at the GSS question: " ... guns or revolvers." What is a revolver but a gun?

I've long said there should be a ten question quiz about firearms you have to take and pass before you can make silly statements about guns.
Without that we have stuff like this: http://c1.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/BUYCQ_tCAAA0JYk.jpg-large.jpeg

Did you see this guy? Highly amusing.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Do you guys have any recommendations for a semi-auto sidearm that's not too costly? I'm not going to conceal it, but just something to strap on when I'm berry picking, and for plinking.

Taurus PT7xx series: P709 (9mm) or P740 (.40 cal). Decent, functional, lowest price points.

But you say "plinking" and that's normally a .22 caliber round. Ruger has a couple nice options.

Know what the < bleep > you're doing before you do anything. And secure it when it's not with you.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

That poll does not have even a snowball's chance of being accurate. I'm less paranoid than some gun owners, but there's no way I'm answering those questions honestly over the phone or without a served search warrant.

Some of the decline could be measurement error as the crazy spreads, but still I assume gun ownership percentage roughly tracks with rural/urban percentages.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Did you see this guy? Highly amusing.

Good grief. The "bullet button" is just a tool for magazine release. A "bullet button" does not make a semi-automatic into a full automatic.