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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

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Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

dxmnkd316 said:
I've often thought about this. I think it is. Since Columbine it has changed.
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While on that subject, when was the last one of these at a high school? It feels like it's been awhile. Whereas back in the day (late 90s - early 00s) it seemed like most of them were at high schools. Is there a trend away from high schools and, if so, what caused it (and how can we learn from that)?
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

French Rage said:
While on that subject, when was the last one of these at a high school? It feels like it's been awhile. Whereas back in the day (late 90s - early 00s) it seemed like most of them were at high schools. Is there a trend away from high schools and, if so, what caused it (and how can we learn from that)?
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Columbine happened in April of 1999, just a couple weeks before I had to present my senior thesis paper on Right to Carry Concealed Weapons Permits and Their Impact on Murder Rates. The timing was uncanny for me.
 
Brenthoven said:
There are too many guns in the nation to make a ban even CLOSE to working. People need to friggin' realize that. So, anyone who has no mental issues, no violent/felonious criminal record, and goes through gun safety training, and wants to buy a gun, should be able to buy a gun.
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One counterpoint to that: It has worked elsewhere.

To head off this arguement, the first thing that needs to change in this country is American Exceptionalism. Yes it is worth it to try things other countries have done. America is not a special snowflake.
 
Jimjamesak said:
One counterpoint to that: It has worked elsewhere.

To head off this arguement, the first thing that needs to change in this country is American Exceptionalism. Yes it is worth it to try things other countries have done. America is not a special snowflake.
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other countries don't have poorly written or poorly interpreted amendments to their constitution like we do that makes Americans think guns are a god given right. So for right now, it's very difficult to try what other countries have done.
 
JF_Gophers said:
other countries don't have poorly written or poorly interpreted amendments to their constitution that makes Americans think guns are a god given right. So for right now, it's very difficult to try what other countries have done.
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Thankfully we have an amendment process...

I'm fully aware of this, it's why these discussions are worthless. This country has to fundamentallly change its mindset for any real change to happen.

But, hopefully, this stuff will hit a breaking point and enough people will want to change.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

French Rage said:
While on that subject, when was the last one of these at a high school? It feels like it's been awhile. Whereas back in the day (late 90s - early 00s) it seemed like most of them were at high schools. Is there a trend away from high schools and, if so, what caused it (and how can we learn from that)?
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This response is somewhat of a surmise based on anectodal evidence, not research.

Columbine involved teenage students shooting their classmates. What changed might be several things:
-- friends of troubled students now speak up a lot more than they did then, teachers are more observant, parents more involved (generally speaking). helpful interventions occur now where before the kids spiraled further downward.
-- maybe the anti-bullying campaign is starting to bear some fruit??
-- more high schools having a public safety officer on staff. Our local high school has a police officer stationed there every school day, for example. I doubt that's unusual.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Jimjamesak said:
Thankfully we have an amendment process...

I'm fully aware of this, it's why these discussions are worthless. This country has to fundamentallly change its mindset for any real change to happen.

But, hopefully, this stuff will hit a breaking point and enough people will want to change.
Click to expand...

If there was going to be a civil breaking point we'd have reached it with Sandy Hook. That was the moment where we proved as a society we are just too evil and selfish to care for people.

Change will either be slow and demographic, when we've flushed the cavemen out of our bloodstream, or fast and painful after whatever pathetic insurrection the herpa-derps finally mount when they realize 1950 is gone forever.

A society of intelligent adults, some with guns, some with not, could work out a compromise. But that is not what we have. So we will wait until by death or treason the monsters self-select out.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Jimjamesak said:
One counterpoint to that: It has worked elsewhere.

To head off this arguement, the first thing that needs to change in this country is American Exceptionalism. Yes it is worth it to try things other countries have done. America is not a special snowflake.
Click to expand...

We kinda are, but in a bad way: attitude towards guns. There's a fight? Oh, lemme grab my 9 (or for the Wu-Tang term: 8+1 and start flippin' and trippin').

As for being a Muslim, you can be Muslim and American. One's a religion, one's a nationality. Unless my snark meter is in need of re-charging.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

FreshFish said:
One of the biggest problems mental health professionals face today are "advocates" for people who are mentally ill. Many states have to deal with legal aid people who sue the states over their attempts to regulate people who have already been diagnosed with permanent mental illnesses, particularly psychiatric ones.

Many schizophrenics, for example, can be functional in society as long as they stay on their medications. However, many of them do not want to take their medications. How do we handle that situation?

Right now, the pattern is, they go off their meds, get arrested, get put back on their meds while in the hospital, get released, go out into the world, go off their meds, get arrested, etc. etc. and the cycle repeats.

Can schizophrenics be legally required to remain on their meds as a condition of their ability to move about freely in society?

Find a viable answer to that question and you'll go a long way to solving the problem you identify.
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Using schizophrenia is a very poor example when talking about violence, especially gun violence. You are picturing a strawman. People suffering form schizophrenia are very largely non-violent. You hear sensationalized stories but those are the exception, and usually involve tremendous mishandling of the situation.

They generally do not get arrested when they get off their meds. I think you misunderstand the role of the police officer in those situations. When they are brought to a locked psychiatric unit, they are not released off into the wild. If there is a reasonable need to detain an individual at a locked institution, it actually is not too difficult as a physician to do that. We have a large amount of privilege in that respect. There is so much planning and work behind these patients for their release (when resources are available, which in large part, they are because schizophrenia is a "buzz word" disease that can be easier to obtain social resources for).

The people who suffer when schizophrenics are off of their meds are largely the individuals themselves.

I have worked in and with several locked psychiatric units. I can tell you from my experience that the people I were least worried about in regards to my safety were the schizophrenics.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

WisconsinWildcard said:
Using schizophrenia is a very poor example when talking about violence, especially gun violence. You are picturing a strawman. People suffering form schizophrenia are very largely non-violent. You hear sensationalized stories but those are the exception, and usually involve tremendous mishandling of the situation.

They generally do not get arrested when they get off their meds. I think you misunderstand the role of the police officer in those situations. When they are brought to a locked psychiatric unit, they are not released off into the wild. If there is a reasonable need to detain an individual at a locked institution, it actually is not too difficult as a physician to do that. We have a large amount of privilege in that respect. There is so much planning and work behind these patients for their release (when resources are available, which in large part, they are because schizophrenia is a "buzz word" disease that can be easier to obtain social resources for).

The people who suffer when schizophrenics are off of their meds are largely the individuals themselves.

I have worked in and with several locked psychiatric units. I can tell you from my experience that the people I were least worried about in regards to my safety were the schizophrenics.
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Honest question: do you want to deal with the exception?

There is NO way we can stop EVERYTHING bad from happening, but if there is an abnormality, for lack of a better word, to begin with...I don't want to take that chance. Fair or not.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Jimjamesak said:
Thankfully we have an amendment process...

I'm fully aware of this, it's why these discussions are worthless. This country has to fundamentallly change its mindset for any real change to happen.

But, hopefully, this stuff will hit a breaking point and enough people will want to change.
Click to expand...

True. But the issue here is that due to the amendment process, getting gun laws amended will never happen. Can you really get 2/3 of the states to vote to change it...even if its only to make it more specific? No.

I think you start at the state level with laws like 'stand and defend'. Because laws like this defend killing someone else through excessive force when one feels overly threatened...it turns any confrontation into a gun duel. I must escalate the situation before you do and the law infers there's justification in doing so.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

MaizeRage said:
That ship has sailed. In this case it's more about giving up privilege.
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I think the SCOTUS would disagree with you on that one. They've been very favorable towards privacy rights over the years, and the idea of tracking someone simply because they're purchasing legal goods that you don't like isn't going to hold much water with the justices.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

MaizeRage said:
I don't wonder. Those people should be IDed and monitored.
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I suppose you probably agree with Trump that everyone who owns a Quran should be ID'd and monitored too?

Personally, I think that would be racist and a violation of civil rights...
 
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