Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

And if people need ID's to vote- which is an amendment- why can't a ID requirement for all guns be allowed?

What? Please show me the Amendment requiring photo ID to vote. Most ID requirements to vote have been fought by certain political forces.

And what would have an ID done for Orlando? The guy was signed off by the FBI (private gun owner, licensed security guard).

The guy was guano loco. He could've driven a dump truck through the wall into the place, or lit the entrances on fire (see Seattle).

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

How do you limit how fast a person can pull a trigger?

It's just a mechanical device. It's not that hard.

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

Had there been a restriction on the gun, it's likely that the number dead would be fewer. Fewer rounds in a clip is a good start, a rate of fire limit would be a good thing, a speed of clip change limit would be a good thing- none of those would change the legal use of an automatic weapon, realistically.

Smaller magazines (not "clips", FFS), they'd most likely just carry more. Columbine and VA Tech proved that.

Rate of fire limit... It's a semi-automatic. As has been stated by numerous knowledgeable folks here several times, it fires as you pull the trigger. One discharge for each trigger pull. Now, if you're intending that the only allowable actions are pump/bolt/etc, that's different. Not sure how I feel about that.

Speed of magazine change, how exactly do you envision that to happen? A law that states "you shall not take less than 5 seconds, 10 seconds to swap a magazine." Let me know how that would work out...

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Funny. Dismiss people's ideas because they don't use the correct technical terms. Only qualified people are allowed to have a valid opinion.

Re-read what I wrote.
I'm trying to help you by making you sound more intelligent to the other side from your opinion.

(Imagine how someone would be received in this forum talking about the second quarter of a hockey game. Understand?)

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

What about the rest of the amendments that are regulated?

Address the fact that the definition of religion is there. Address the fact that "free speech" isn't completely unlimited. Address the fact that there should not be a poll tax, but an ID that you have to pay for is ok. Address the fact that the time for a quick hearing can be from weeks to years?

I could go on, but instead of focusing on not touching the 2nd, what about the rest?

The idea that the 2nd can be applied to attacking enemies and/or over throwing the government is comical. Maybe then, but not since about 1800. Certainly didn't work in 1861, when the arms against were far more organized.

So back to the rest- does that post mean you don't accept the restrictions placed on you for all of the rest of the Amendments??? Or do you only care about this one?

When did I ever state anything about first amendment restrictions, other than its relation to the 9th amendment?

When did I ever state that I support voter IDs? If you put voting on identification, in order to suppress the vote, all you have to do is use the computer network used to scan the ID (because they're not going to allow the poll workers to just look at it, I guarantee that) to "suspend" someone's ID for the day of the election.

Or did they teach you at Michigan that anyone who disagrees with you is a "stupid republican", and that they all think the same?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

What? Please show me the Amendment requiring photo ID to vote. Most ID requirements to vote have been fought by certain political forces.

And what would have an ID done for Orlando? The guy was signed off by the FBI (private gun owner, licensed security guard).

The guy was guano loco. He could've driven a dump truck through the wall into the place, or lit the entrances on fire (see Seattle).

There isn't an amendment that requires a voter ID, but many states REQUIRE a voter ID, and somehow, that's ok.

Still, the argument is more about the larger concept of regulation, not a specific idea of IDs. Seems like that concept it totally lost.

Why is it so freaking hard to want to come up with ideas and rules to reduce the scale of mass shootings??? I just don't get that. You get so lost in the details that the big picture is totally lost.

 

[Jimjamesak]

What? Please show me the Amendment requiring photo ID to vote. Most ID requirements to vote have been fought by certain political forces.

And what would have an ID done for Orlando? The guy was signed off by the FBI (private gun owner, licensed security guard).

The guy was guano loco. He could've driven a dump truck through the wall into the place, or lit the entrances on fire (see Seattle).

Stop using the argument that a fire would've been just as effective. Given the fact that fire codes and fire departments exist and the fact that a fire would give people several minutes of reaction time versus the milliseconds of a gun, it's a silly argument.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

When did I ever state anything about first amendment restrictions, other than its relation to the 9th amendment?

When did I ever state that I support voter IDs? If you put voting on identification, in order to suppress the vote, all you have to do is use the computer network used to scan the ID (because they're not going to allow the poll workers to just look at it, I guarantee that) to "suspend" someone's ID for the day of the election.

You don't seem to fight any other restrictions on any other amendment as you do the 2nd. Here's your opportunity to speak out for the rest. Go for it. That's my point. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

It's just a mechanical device. It's not that hard.

Revolver (longest stroke, most force, trigger to pull). Eight times. One second.

Better? Six shots, reload, six shots, 2.9 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

We prosecute for texting and driving. We don't ban cellphones. Pretty sure we have laws against shooting people, just like laws against texting and driving.

We also don't ban cars, airplanes and food...guns are not critical to running a society.

It amazes me the kinds of arguments you guys come up with.

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

It amazes me the kinds of arguments you guys come up with.

As it amazes us the kinds of arguments "you guys" come up with.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Smaller magazines (not "clips", FFS), they'd most likely just carry more. Columbine and VA Tech proved that.

Rate of fire limit... It's a semi-automatic. As has been stated by numerous knowledgeable folks here several times, it fires as you pull the trigger. One discharge for each trigger pull. Now, if you're intending that the only allowable actions are pump/bolt/etc, that's different. Not sure how I feel about that.

Speed of magazine change, how exactly do you envision that to happen? A law that states "you shall not take less than 5 seconds, 10 seconds to swap a magazine." Let me know how that would work out...

Again, it's just a mechanical device. It's not hard to conceptualize a design that limits the speed that you can pull a trigger. Nor is it hard to conceptualize a magazine design that is more difficult to change.

Sorry you can't see that concept.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Re-read what I wrote.
I'm trying to help you by making you sound more intelligent to the other side from your opinion.

(Imagine how someone would be received in this forum talking about the second quarter of a hockey game. Understand?)

And pull back to see the larger picture here.

Diversity in ideas are a good thing. Not all of them are good, heck a majority can be **** poor. But thinking about them all can come up with good ideas.

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

Again, it's just a mechanical device. It's not hard to conceptualize a design that limits the speed that you can pull a trigger. Nor is it hard to conceptualize a magazine design that is more difficult to change.

Sorry you can't see that concept.

Create a business that specializes in producing these mechanical devices, then. It's clearly a booming industry, as you'd be the first and only business doing that.

Oh. Wait.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Stop using the argument that a fire would've been just as effective. Given the fact that fire codes and fire departments exist and the fact that a fire would give people several minutes of reaction time versus the milliseconds of a gun, it's a silly argument.

They (the survivors) said the place had one way in and one way out the guano loco guy had them trapped inside.

It's been tried before:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...t-reaches-out-to-victims-of-orlando-massacre/

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Too lazy to look but from what I have read we don't need to import guns. Just go over the border to one of the states with lax laws. Pretty sure some of the mexican guns are acquired in the US but again I am too lazy to look for the states.

The ATF and Mexican government put 90% of guns acquired in Mexico as having US origins. Mexico has one legal gun shop, which is located in Mexico City.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

How about this, the anti-gun crowd wants ideas on what can be done that we (the pro-gun people) would accept, so I'll propose a few items that I, personally, would be ok with. (no guarantees with flaggy, we all know he's a few doughnuts short of a dozen)

1. Get tougher on gun ownership responsibility. Make people liable when they make weapons they own available to people that commit violent crimes. This encourages people to lock up their guns, and be more responsible gun owners, and potentially keeps guns out of the hands of dangerous people.
2. Install a system to efficiently allow background checks for private gun sales, and encourage its use. As a gun owner, if I were to sell a gun, I'd use this voluntarily, as would many others.
3. Install an option for "Advanced" concealed carry permits. This would be a training that is the same, or very similar to the weapons training that police officers receive. It would be tough to pass. It would also allow citizens, that are very highly trained, to carry in the same locations off-duty police officers do.
4. Create a system to allows law enforcement to add people under investigation to a no-buy list (the felon list). This is tricky, because there needs to be adequate checks and balances, we cannot have people put on this list for no reason, with no way to get off of it. There needs to be a quick way to fight having your name on the list.

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

The ATF and Mexican government put 90% of guns acquired in Mexico as having US origins. Mexico has one legal gun shop, which is located in Mexico City.

Sources I'm seeing state 60-70% of weapons smuggled in from the US. Building a wall would lower that number drastically. Thus, we should build the wall.

 

[unofan]

Smaller magazines (not "clips", FFS), they'd most likely just carry more. Columbine and VA Tech proved that.

Rate of fire limit... It's a semi-automatic. As has been stated by numerous knowledgeable folks here several times, it fires as you pull the trigger. One discharge for each trigger pull. Now, if you're intending that the only allowable actions are pump/bolt/etc, that's different. Not sure how I feel about that.

Speed of magazine change, how exactly do you envision that to happen? A law that states "you shall not take less than 5 seconds, 10 seconds to swap a magazine." Let me know how that would work out...

Do all triggers act alike, or are there differences? In other words, if I can fire gun X four times in a second, will I necessarily be able to fire gun Y at the same speed? Or are some made to be fired more rapidly than others? Assuming both are semi-automatic.

In other words, is it entirely dependent on the human, or do the mechanics of the gun play a role?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Fastest revolver shooter in the world can pull eight times (accurately) in one second. That's faster than some automatic weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM

Do all triggers act alike, or are there differences? In other words, if I can fire gun X four times in a second, will I necessarily be able to fire gun Y at the same speed? Or are some made to be fired more rapidly than others? Assuming both are semi-automatic.

In other words, is it entirely dependent on the human, or do the mechanics of the gun play a role?

Again, it's just a mechanical device. It's not hard to conceptualize a design that limits the speed that you can pull a trigger. Nor is it hard to conceptualize a magazine design that is more difficult to change.

Sorry you can't see that concept.

Will have to post this again (and again). This former military officer says the AR 15 fires about 180 rounds a minute. Even with a 30 magazine...that's 30 casualties.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-round...ire-per-minute

The only pack this type of fire power kills is humans. You can see the AR 15 in action in this clip.

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/ar-15-bump-fire-legal/

We need to ban weapons capable of this.

Sources I'm seeing state 60-70% of weapons smuggled in from the US. Building a wall would lower that number drastically. Thus, we should build the wall.

Not sure if one Mexico City gun shop provides 30-40% of the guns...especially when they're primarily used near the US border. The broader point is that guns are causing widespread death on both sides of the border.