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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

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The Sicatoka said:
I'm sorry. I missed one here: box cutters
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I like your use of the word whim. Perhaps they'd be less apt to use a gun on a whim if they couldn't get said gun on a whim.

(And sarin gas? Really? Do you think The Rock (movie, not wrestler) was a documentary? The only way to stop a bad guy with Sarin is with a good guy with sarin?)
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

unofan said:
(And sarin gas? Really? Do you think The Rock (movie, not wrestler) was a documentary? The only way to stop a bad guy with Sarin is with a good guy with sarin?)
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Yes, sarin. And you're not listening: Bad people will do bad things with whatever is available to them.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

In response to reading posts of those who feel they must have a right to protect themselves and need the right to tote a gun everywhere-

If you were to think of this in a detached, non-reactionary way it is just fascinating. Until we got this 'right' to carry in the recent past, the common man did not feel the need or feel unsafe. We lived for most of the last century (and in most places for more than a century) without feeling we needed to carry a gun, feel like we needed to protect ourselves against the minute possibility of someone out to get us. Now our culture so different from the rest of the civilized world. They continue to feel mostly safe, don't go about worried in their daily life. We have many who feel we live in a country that is so uncivilized that we need a gun to be safe to live in it. Marketing is a b1tch. Say enough times we are all in mortal peril or at least we could be, so we must be prepared!!!1!1!1!! and need is created where there was none.

Reminds me of the cold war when we decided we would stockpile weapons to prevent attack. Seems like we figured out how to defuse that only to let that mentality trickle down to the common populace.

I think I asked before but don't remember a response- are there actual stats showing how likely it is you will need to use a gun? Are there any stats that show having one is protective? I don't mean anecdotal stories of one guy who saved the world but actual stats re how many assaults that were prevented v those where it wouldn't have mattered?


(feeling philosophical)
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

The Sicatoka said:
Yes, sarin. And you're not listening: Bad people will do bad things with whatever is available to them.
Click to expand...

Right and some are trying to have less things available to them...while others are basically saying "screw it".

Legislating based on "Teh Crazies" is like teaching based on "Teh Ignorant". Sure it makes sense to dumb things down a bit but when it drags down the rest of the class it is time to devote less time to them. Now I know you apparently need machine guns to defend yourself and that the evil overlord Diane Feinstein wants to make sure that isnt possible, but tough cookies man things need to change. If "Teh Evil Onez" are going to kill anyways lets try not to make things available that can do it fast and in large numbers.
 
The Sicatoka said:
"Some bad person will say something bad so everyone should be forced to not say bomb in an airport. " It's the same logic.
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FTFY

And we criminalize inciting a riot, making terroristic threats, disturbing the peace, etc. despite the 1st Amendment.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

leswp1 said:
Was listening to a journalist who wrote a book about the evolution of concealed carry. Was fascinating. Made me think of this thread. He got interested when he had spent time out of country, came back to a country totally different, where it went from no one thinking it was a right or necessary or that we were under threat to a country where people were needing to carry to protect themselves and it was legal in all states.

In the 70's there was a shift in the NRA from telling people they need to be responsible, not everyone needs to carry and infact discouraging this thinking to the current- everyone should carry because they have a right and need to protect themselves. In the 30s the NRA was actively working against the very thing they advocate now. He was discussing the time line and shift in thinking/political mechanations, marketing that went on to get us where we are today. Not pro or anti gun. Just giving time line.

Kind of in line with what I was saying earlier- there is a cultural shift to paranoia where people need to protect themselves in case when before no one would have thought like that. Wish I could remember the guys name. I love the sociology that surrounds the issue.
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Their mantra probably changed when they realized the $$ potential behind pushing a message of, "gotta have one at all times".
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

The Sicatoka said:
"Some bad person might say something bad so everyone should be made to shut up." It's the same logic.
Click to expand...

Come on dude. You're one of the smarter people here from my armchair and it would be nice if you didn't resort to so much bul**it to try and win this point. I think the vast majority of us that believe things are askew are still against any kind of mass restriction on gun ownership, want to rescind or prevent CCW nor think any proposed legislation is the ultimate panacea.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Slap Shot said:
Come on dude. You're one of the smarter people here from my armchair and it would be nice if you didn't resort to so much bul**it to try and win this point. I think the vast majority of us that believe things are askew are still against any kind of mass restriction on gun ownership, want to rescind or prevent CCW nor think any proposed legislation is the ultimate panacea.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

leswp1 said:
In response to reading posts of those who feel they must have a right to protect themselves and need the right to tote a gun everywhere-

If you were to think of this in a detached, non-reactionary way it is just fascinating. Until we got this 'right' to carry in the recent past, the common man did not feel the need or feel unsafe. We lived for most of the last century (and in most places for more than a century) without feeling we needed to carry a gun, feel like we needed to protect ourselves against the minute possibility of someone out to get us. Now our culture so different from the rest of the civilized world. They continue to feel mostly safe, don't go about worried in their daily life. We have many who feel we live in a country that is so uncivilized that we need a gun to be safe to live in it. Marketing is a b1tch. Say enough times we are all in mortal peril or at least we could be, so we must be prepared!!!1!1!1!! and need is created where there was none.

Reminds me of the cold war when we decided we would stockpile weapons to prevent attack. Seems like we figured out how to defuse that only to let that mentality trickle down to the common populace.

I think I asked before but don't remember a response- are there actual stats showing how likely it is you will need to use a gun? Are there any stats that show having one is protective? I don't mean anecdotal stories of one guy who saved the world but actual stats re how many assaults that were prevented v those where it wouldn't have mattered?


(feeling philosophical)
Click to expand...

Posted these once, but since you missed them here are two articles with links to studies. Basic finding is owning a gun is bad for your health.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-national-rifle-association
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...e_the_risk_of_homicide_accidents_suicide.html
 
leswp1 said:
I think I asked before but don't remember a response- are there actual stats showing how likely it is you will need to use a gun? Are there any stats that show having one is protective? I don't mean anecdotal stories of one guy who saved the world but actual stats re how many assaults that were prevented v those where it wouldn't have mattered?


(feeling philosophical)
Click to expand...

I think it's mostly manufactured fear. I think the statistics would show you're in more danger if you carry a loaded weapon. You're more likely to shoot someone accidentally or wrongly than actually need to defend yourself.

Is this the program you listened to?

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

For others, I'd listen to the program, not just read the headlines. It touches on how gun makers use fear to justify the concealed carry lifestyle and sell more guns, and once you start carrying a gun you greatly overestimate the number of other people that are armed (which can result in deadly consequences if you feel threatened by someone you think could be armed). Now altercations that wouldn't have amounted to anything significant may end with a shooting.
 
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