Cops 9: You Are What Now?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Oh ffs. Police budgets don't need to be increased.

Better training and better candidates will cost money, so if you want to keep a similar amount of officers per department, you have to increase the funding. If you want to do what ND Hockey suggested and half the force while reducing the budget by 25% so it has the same effect, that's a different story.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Going to be a lot harder than they think. The City Charter requires a police force of a certain size based upon population, and it requires the Council to adequately fund it. Can only amend the Charter by a vote put to the people, or by unanimous vote of the Council and Mayor, I believe.

Well it seems the people of Minneapolis as of now are overwhelmingly in favor of it. I am not sure how a vote would work out if they tried.

From what it sounds like there would never actually be "No Police" they just wouldnt have the "Minneapolis Police Department" which is their way around the charter. Without details it is tough to say what the long term plan is.

I am of two minds on this and it really kind of has me conflicted. On one hand if this doesnt work it would be mass chaos. (worst case obviously) On the otherhand the MPD is corrupt and until the City is able to wrestle away power from Kroll and his losers that will never change. The City has been fighting this same battle (bad cops and corrupt bureaucrats protecting them) since my dad was a kid and it always ends the same so something has to change. If the people dont trust the cops to protect them, and the cops dont actually act in a way that does in fact protect them, what is the point of having a police force?

Re-training wont fix the problem, short of firing all of the department and starting with new recruits. The rot is ingrained and it is everywhere. This is not one or two weeds in your yard messing it up this is dandelions everywhere you look and Creeping Charlie infesting it and rotting out the grass. I dont know how you can fix that. I also no longer live in the city so it really isnt my problem. state of hockey might have a different perspective...

 

[Stauber1]

After everything we've seen over the past 2 weeks, it's amazing to me that so many are still saying "we need better training" as a solution to the abhorrent behavior of law enforcement.

The difference between a piece of **** and a well-trained piece of **** isnt that much.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Better training and better candidates will cost money, so if you want to keep a similar amount of officers per department, you have to increase the funding. If you want to do what ND Hockey suggested and half the force while reducing the budget by 25% so it has the same effect, that's a different story.

How will better training help a cop who is 10 years on the force and has been emboldened to act the way he/she does? No veteran of the force is going to just go to a new training and change. Hell Minneapolis cops right now are still acting like total *****s despite intense scrutiny.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

It matters BECAUSE they are "properly" trained. When you get military equipment, you are trained to use it, the way the military designed to use it... To use it in their way, you have to have that mentality- that around every single corner there is an IED, and you will die. Which is exactly how cops treat people.

There are so very few actual armed insurrections in this country, that NONE of this is needed. How many Detroit '68 or LA '92 actually happen???? They are put with a year because they are so infrequent. Which means NONE of the military stuff is needed anytime, especially in places that has never actually had any serious riots.

Yet East St Louis has them. Why? Because black.

None of it should ever be in cops hands. Ever. And if R's REALLY think it's needed, then they don't need the 2nd, since their excuse to have the 2nd is to fight the unjust government, from military cops. Duh.

BTW- went on a drive to central So Michigan. And I seriously thought what in the world do these people fear so much to be as conservative as they are. There's zero threat to their life. Nobody is out there other than farms. The only thing here in MI that threatens farm lands are oil people- which they support drill baby drill.

The fear in people is stunning. And the fact that they eat up for fear crap is pathetic.

JeffC. They can be TRAINED to use it properly, and that also can mean, DON'T use it unless absolutely necessary. Last resort. If police were trained properly, this would be the case. You have it at your disposal, but this is NOT your first choice whatsoever.

Guess what? Some out there, they do have weapons that will overcome standard police equipment. If THAT situation arises, then you THINK about using those extra armaments, and deploy as necessary. Key words: as necessary.

To send out an officer armed only with a baton and a radio is beyond ridiculous; seems to me that some of you are advocating that sort of stance. Pfffffft.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/MittRomney?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MittRomney</a> is marching with a group of nearly 1,000 Christians to the White House. Here he is on video saying why he’s walking: “... to make sure that people understand that Black Lives Matter” <a href="https://t.co/KCxJNchCMs">https://t.co/KCxJNchCMs</a> <a href="https://t.co/Za0Am2WL8g">pic.twitter.com/Za0Am2WL8g</a></p>— Hannah Natanson (@hannah_natanson) <a href="https://twitter.com/hannah_natanson/status/1269742337934217219?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My story <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ICYMI?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ICYMI</a> Thursday. The tube running behind Brandon's ear is to drain fluid from his skull to prevent blood clots. Lost left eye, 7 teeth & had surgeries for facial fractures after <a href="https://twitter.com/DallasPD?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DallasPD</a> shot him with less-lethal ammo at 5/30 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GeorgeFloyd?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GeorgeFloyd</a> protest <a href="https://t.co/FFDJ7CmNE9">https://t.co/FFDJ7CmNE9</a></p>— David Lee (@CNSDallas) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNSDallas/status/1269436596878704649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

It likely does happen. Your insinuation is that Rube's family does that...without proof...so you can knock it off.

Lighten up. Your boyfriend can stick up for himself.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

How will better training help a cop who is 10 years on the force and has been emboldened to act the way he/she does? No veteran of the force is going to just go to a new training and change. Hell Minneapolis cops right now are still acting like total *****s despite intense scrutiny.

It will be difficult, but not impossible. This would also include better training at the academy for new recruits and identifying better training officers to begin with. They should also have required recurrent training throughout the year.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

It will be difficult, but not impossible. This would also include better training at the academy for new recruits and identifying better training officers to begin with. They should also have required recurrent training throughout the year.

I dunno that sounds like the same BS they try every time something like this happens and 6 months later nothing has changed.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"It opens up wounds in me. The most painful part is seeing it continue to happen." These mothers who lost sons to police violence tell protesters to "keep up the fight" <a href="https://t.co/VfG3mGwVsM">https://t.co/VfG3mGwVsM</a></p>— TIME (@TIME) <a href="https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1269774112383270913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Lighten up. Your boyfriend can stick up for himself.

I can and I will. My uncle and great grandpa served a combined 68 years on the force in Olmstead County in MN. Can't find info on my great grandpa. But here is a link on my uncle. They pulled their weapons zero times. They were by-the-books cops, too. My uncle gave his own son a speeding ticket. (Legendary anecdote among our family, btw). They were good cops. Added: my uncle was on duty during the Hormel strikes in Austin (also linked, at how tense that was):
https://www.postbulletin.com/news/n...cle_65186259-369c-5ead-bccf-949a98baaeff.html
https://www.minnpost.com/mnopedia/2...f-minnesotas-most-contentious-labor-disputes/

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

An actual American Hero:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Todd Winn stood alone at Utah’s state Capitol until his shoes melted into the ground to support BLM. <a href="https://t.co/u2EFXmiQqr">pic.twitter.com/u2EFXmiQqr</a></p>— (@LilCurlzZz) <a href="https://twitter.com/LilCurlzZz/status/1269658360153960449?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

My uncle and great grandpa served a combined 68 years on the force in Olmstead County in MN.

What this tells me is you should recuse yourself from the discussion because you can't help having deeply biased thinking.

We have all debated somebody who flipped out because they felt loved ones were being attacked. Those debates are pointless -- you cannot argue with them because they aren't arguing on the merits, they are arguing on their loyalty, which is irrelevant to the merits.

Your arguments re: cops, which have not struck me as rational or demonstrating awareness of the problems, now make a lot more sense. You're not being stupid or insensitive or authoritarian, you're being loyal. And while that's laudable, it makes your arguments worthless.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

What this tells me is you should recuse yourself from the discussion because you can't help having deeply biased thinking.

We have all debated somebody who flipped out because they felt loved ones were being attacked. Those debates are pointless -- you cannot argue with them because they aren't arguing on the merits, they are arguing on their loyalty, which is irrelevant to the merits.

I should not recuse myself, because a*holes like Chauvin tarnish the badge that my relatives wore, and there are also awesome cops who don't deserve the blanket hatred that I am seeing today. I'll call it like I see it, and the more details in (x) case, the better.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

JeffC. They can be TRAINED to use it properly, and that also can mean, DON'T use it unless absolutely necessary. Last resort. If police were trained properly, this would be the case. You have it at your disposal, but this is NOT your first choice whatsoever.

.

That has nothing to do with training. You know why these cops are teargassing, pepper-spraying, and knocking kids over the heads with batons just for standing there? Because they can. They get off on it. No amount of training will fix that mindset.

What "training" or no training would make anyone think this was ok? Why does someone do this other than they're an ***-hole d!ck who shouldn't be a police officer.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">MINNEAPOLIS: Several MPD police cruisers drive by peaceful demonstrators and pepper spray them from moving vehicles for no reason. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BLUEFALL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BLUEFALL</a><a href="https://t.co/aQQMbyYD17">pic.twitter.com/aQQMbyYD17</a></p>— Chad Loder (@chadloder) <a href="https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1268955152750264320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Defund or disband the police does not mean you eliminate the police department and leaving nothing in its place. Camden New Jersey "disbanded" its police department some years ago in a radical re-imagining of law enforcement. It was reborn as a county wide police department with a much more focused emphasis on the notion that the cops were community based and not an occupying force. They are doing more with less. Murders rates have been drastically reduced. It isn't all peaches and cream, and there are plenty of factors that go into better crime statistics, but many see Camden as a success story, and I believe Camden cops were some of the ones highlighted recently as marching with peaceful protesters.

The last thing we need to do with law enforcement is throw MORE money at it just to hire more cops. In fact, going forward I think that might be the absolute worst thing to do. It's funny really, often the same people who want to repair our completely broken criminal justice system simply say more money and more cops and at the same time they think poorly performing public schools should be punished by reducing their funding.

It can't be said enough until the message sinks in from sea to shining sea, but you want to prevent crime, improve your schools and job opportunities, improve your health care (especially mental health care) and stop sending people with addiction and mental health issues to jail or prison. You do that and you will see crime drop precipitously. And for those of you who love cop and think their jobs are oh so dangerous, you'll save cop lives too doing all that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

I should not recuse myself, because a*holes like Chauvin tarnish the badge that my relatives wore, and there are also awesome cops who don't deserve the blanket hatred that I am seeing today. I'll call it like I see it, and the more details in (x) case, the better.

The point is, Rube, that the way you see it is hopelessly compromised by your emotions. You are too close to this. Your arguments are autobiography, not reason. You can say them all you want but I'm not going to engage with you on this because what you're saying is "oh yeah?!, well my daddy's just as good as your daddy!" And I'm too old for that sh-t.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

Those are the people, during the training and screening process WITH ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, that would be weeded out before they were handed a badge.

You give in to the lowest bidder, you're going to get the sh*iest project. Simple math.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 9: You Are What Now?

I should not recuse myself, because a*holes like Chauvin tarnish the badge that my relatives wore, and there are also awesome cops who don't deserve the blanket hatred that I am seeing today. I'll call it like I see it, and the more details in (x) case, the better.

Then why don't those "awesome" cops kick cops like Chauvin in the head when they do their ****? All those "awesome" cops, sure \ly one of them can step up? Just one.

But it never happens.