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Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

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WeAreNDHockey said:
To compare the FOP (and most police unions whether FOP-affiliated or not) to unions in general(no matter your opinion of labor unions) is like comparing the hockey I play to the hockey that Jonathan Toews plays. You might be able to say we're both playing hockey but we are not playing the same game by any stretch.
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I'm not quite sure what you mean, can you be more specific?
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Jimjamesak said:
And as pro-union as I am, I don't like that. That is, at least in my opinion, very wrong. As a union your members should not only be allowed to speak truthfully and freely but it should be encouraged.
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I agree...in fact it is stuff like that which is why I dont much like unions. (I still think we are better having them than not)
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Jimjamesak said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean, can you be more specific?
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Their union does not parallel most unions. It is very powerful (especially in cities like New York) and the leadership rules with a very iron grip. The Police Union is like what GOPers think the Teachers Union is ;)
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Most police unions do not share the same social goals as a good portion of the labor movement at large. Most do not lend solidarity to unions when you see unions pushing whatever social agenda they are trying to push. Very few police unions have ever been active participants in the any form of the civil rights movement, in years gone or now, for instance.

Only when a police union finds itself in a contractual dispute with an employer or when their union's life is threatened do they act like most unions act. Coincidentally it is when they expect other unions to support them. When the state of Ohio pushed a right-to-work statute forward it failed to exempt police officers and firefighters. Consequently the FOP (and firefighter unions) came out in droves with the rest of the Ohio labor movement to defeat Senate Bill 5, and it died on the floor. Similar right-to-work legislation in Michigan and Act 10 in Wisconsin carved out police officers and guess what? The FOP and other unions exclusive to law enforcement were nowhere to be seen as unions massed to protest.

I have been involved with labor unions everywhere I have worked, at every level one can be involved and have been on staff at two different unions (one is my current employer). After decades of doing or being around this work I have very rarely seen any police union behave in a way I'd want a union I was involved in to behave.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Handyman said:
Their union does not parallel most unions. It is very powerful (especially in cities like New York) and the leadership rules with a very iron grip. The Police Union is like what GOPers think the Teachers Union is ;)
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I would disagree that it is very powerful in many places. They bully their way to a few things that make them feel good, but in terms of actually being able to pressure an individual employer, I think the FOP is one of the weaker public sector unions around. Their success has been limited to being able to carve themselves out some of the recent right-to-work legislation and draconian pension cuts that others in the public sector have seen. I credit the 15 year post-911 kid gloves treatment that the police have received for most of that success. The right hates all things government except the police and the military. I also lump the fire-fighting/EMS in that group, and I do so because despite my ties to it, I am also open minded enough to see it benefits from it, while most public sector unions and union members (and private sector ones too) do not.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
Most police unions do not share the same social goals as a good portion of the labor movement at large. Most do not lend solidarity to unions when you see unions pushing whatever social agenda they are trying to push. Very few police unions have ever been active participants in the any form of the civil rights movement, in years gone or now, for instance.

Only when a police union finds itself in a contractual dispute with an employer or when their union's life is threatened do they act like most unions act. Coincidentally it is when they expect other unions to support them. When the state of Ohio pushed a right-to-work statute forward it failed to exempt police officers and firefighters. Consequently the FOP (and firefighter unions) came out in droves with the rest of the Ohio labor movement to defeat Senate Bill 5, and it died on the floor. Similar right-to-work legislation in Michigan and Act 10 in Wisconsin carved out police officers and guess what? The FOP and other unions exclusive to law enforcement were nowhere to be seen as unions massed to protest.

I have been involved with labor unions everywhere I have worked, at every level one can be involved and have been on staff at two different unions (one is my current employer). After decades of doing or being around this work I have very rarely seen any police union behave in a way I'd want a union I was involved in to behave.
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Ok, I thought that was what you were saying but it wasn't quite clear.

Yeah police unions are not friendly with the labor movement (firefighters are very hit and miss in my experience) and also are large contributors to the bad rap unions get (although to be fair, as a Teamster we share a large portion of that too). Similar thing happened in Anchorage when the Republican lead government tried to strip collective bargaining rights away from city employees, it specifically targeted the police and fire unions so they worked like to quash it and then worked to get rid of the various Assembly members that supported it out, but they haven't been too keen on supporting our efforts at the state level stuff.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Jimjamesak said:
And Omertà comes from the exact same kind of background that "don't snitch!" comes from. Poor, little education, and severe lack of opportunity. Why should I help the authorities with the mafioso when the authorities never help me and the mafioso does? Why should I help a cop when all they do is break down our doors or pull us over or lock up my friends and family?
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Because helping them might start to change things? Are you really this dense? "Who will blink first" is an asinine game.

Yes, the cops also need to change. The stubbornness on both sides isn't solving anything.
 
Brenthoven said:
Because helping them might start to change things? Are you really this dense? "Who will blink first" is an asinine game.

Yes, the cops also need to change. The stubbornness on both sides isn't solving anything.
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Because they don't see what police are doing as positive change. And if they don't see what the police are doing as positive they aren't going to help them.

Frankly, it's ridiculous to ask an occupied people to help their occupiers.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Jimjamesak said:
Because they don't see what police are doing as positive change. And if they don't see what the police are doing as positive they aren't going to help them.

Frankly, it's ridiculous to ask an occupied people to help their occupiers.
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And the reverse is true. Don't want to help solve the crime? Well, then, it'll be more difficult to make your neighborhood better. It's a vicious circle. And both are guilty. Period.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Possible case in Valdosta, GA. Man calls cops to report break in. Cops show up. Man shoots cop.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Jimjamesak said:
Because they don't see what police are doing as positive change. And if they don't see what the police are doing as positive they aren't going to help them.

Frankly, it's ridiculous to ask an occupied people to help their occupiers.
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For a guy who seems to like John Singleton movies he doesnt quite seem to get what they are saying...
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Brenthoven said:
And the reverse is true. Don't want to help solve the crime? Well, then, it'll be more difficult to make your neighborhood better. It's a vicious circle. And both are guilty. Period.
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The cops should be held to a higher standard than the people. It is their job to make sure the people trust them not the other way around. They have failed in many places and for a long tie. They need to mend the fences because no one outside white suburbanites seems to trust them anymore. Period.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Handyman said:
The cops should be held to a higher standard than the people. It is their job to make sure the people trust them not the other way around. They have failed in many places and for a long tie. They need to mend the fences because no one outside white suburbanites seems to trust them anymore. Period.
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I agree on the standard, believe me. One person is acting like a petulant child, though.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Symbolic arrests. Really? F BLM. I love the message, their methods are such BS it is sick. Horrible. F them. Go to hell. Burn there. You wanna protest? Pay the price like the people you claim to admire, like Rosa Parks. Fing arseholes.
http://kstp.com/news/protestors-interstate-94/4194653/?cat=1

They have edited the article: the PD is negotiating "symbolic arrests" to end the protest.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Per KSTP Minneapolis:

Updated: 07/09/2016 10:23 PM
Created: 07/09/2016 8:23 PM
Police started arresting protesters who shut down parts of Interstate 94 Saturday night following the death of Philando Castile.
Protesters began throwing objects, including fireworks, at officers according to the St. Paul Police Department. One protester was using a laser sight and pointing it at officers.
Other protesters poured liquids on officers while standing on an overpass.
St. Paul Police Department officers started using glass balls with smoke, not tear gas, on protesters at I-94.
Police officers warned protesters it is an unlawful assembly and crowd and would be arrested if they did not disperse.

FU BLM. Go to hell.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Maybe if cops were held accountable for their actions this wouldn't happen... :crazyconcept:
 
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